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Old 08-02-2010, 08:15 PM
 
18 posts, read 35,472 times
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My wife and me are moving from Europe to the US. We started with quite a list of possibly cities to settle, but at this point The Triangle Area and Atlanta are the only ones left on that list.

We are running an online advertisement company. All our business activities are already in the US, so it makes perfect sense to make the move from Europe to the US. We are not bound by geographical restrictions. All our activities take place online, and the geographical area is not of any impact on our revenue.

What does matter however, is the cost of living, quality of life, and the business costs (office space and availability, avarage wages, education level, taxes) of the area. As our income is the same whether we go to Atlanta or Raleigh, the costs of the area and the quality of life are very important to us.

I have a few questions and I hope you guys would like answer them:

1. Does anyone know how well Raleigh is wired (as in internet, fast fiber connections)? Someone here on this forum said that Raleigh wasn't too great for tech companies as not all of Raleigh was properly wired? Is that true?

2. How easy/hard will it be to find technically skilled employees for normal wages? We are a small company (18 employees currently) and therefor our payroll costs need to stay low. I understand most people here are looking for as highest possibly wages, but as an employer I obviously like the wages to be lower. As we have the freedom of choosing what area to settle, we favor an area with lower wages. Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to find the best professional for crappy low wages, I just look for normal tech guys for avarage wages. I hope this makes sense.

3. Is there tech university in Raleigh?

4. Does anyone has any idea if there's a lot of office space available for decent prices (1000-1500 sq ft for $1500 max)?

5. Would you consider the area conservative or liberal? I completely understand that this is a question that depends on someones perspective and that it cannot easily been said, but I just try to get a VERY global idea of the area.

6. As I stated before, we are from Europe and therefor foreigners. I have read a discussion in this topic about some people from Europe who had a hard time to fit in. I'm wondering how easily people are willing to work for someone non native? We currently have quite a few US people working for us (remotely), and our relation is perfect, but that doesn't mean that it will go well in all areas. We have a feeling that this might be easier in Atlanta as they are more used to foreigners, but that's only an assumption and could very well be incorrect. What do you guys think?

I understand most of these questions are better suited for a realtor or the chamber of commerce. I will take that road as well, but I'm hoping to get some feedback from you guys as well (I notice there are some realtors on this forum too )! We would love to know what locals have to say about this.
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Old 08-02-2010, 08:33 PM
 
Location: Raleigh, NC
10,728 posts, read 22,772,566 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matjong View Post
2. How easy/hard will it be to find technically skilled employees for normal wages? We are a small company (18 employees currently) and therefor our payroll costs need to stay low. I understand most people here are looking for as highest possibly wages, but as an employer I obviously like the wages to be lower. As we have the freedom of choosing what area to settle, we favor an area with lower wages. Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to find the best professional for crappy low wages, I just look for normal tech guys for avarage wages. I hope this makes sense.

3. Is there tech university in Raleigh?
#3 first: Yes, there is a Tech university here: NC State University. Very well-known for its Engineering school.

This leads to #2: I think finding "skilled people for low wages" will be harder here due to the talent attracted by NCSU. Now, perhaps the recession and reasonably high unemployment and tech layoffs, in NC will help your desire to pay "low payroll costs", but it would seem that you'll do better on that front in an area with less of a technical talent base. And I won't in good conscience tell you to relocate here when your plan is to pay as little as you can get away with.

Quote:
5. Would you consider the area conservative or liberal? I completely understand that this is a question that depends on someones perspective and that it cannot easily been said, but I just try to get a VERY global idea of the area.
The Triangle area in general is liberal for a Southern state (generally votes Democratic locally, leans Republican nationwide though the state went for Obama in 2008--though if you are from out of the US, your political framework is probably different than what I can describe) but really, it's about as politically moderate an area, overall, as you can imagine. WE have all types and they generally coexist. You don't tend to see many "extremists" in either direction. But again, I don't know what your definition of "liberal" and "conservative" are compared to what we'd use here. There are lots of churches here, but most folks are not "in your face" about religion (or lack thereof).

Quote:
6. As I stated before, we are from Europe and therefor foreigners. I have read a discussion about some people from Europe who had a hard time to fit in. I'm wondering how easily people are willing to work for someone non native? We currently have quite a few US people working for us (remotely), and our relation is perfect, but that doesn't mean that it will go well in all areas. We have a feeling that this might be easier in Atlanta as they are more used to foreigners, but that's only an assumption and could very well be incorrect.
Atlanta is a more international city than the Triangle--actually it is MUCH more of a "city" in every way--but I think your desire for lowball wages will be more of a problem than your nationality. I think you'll want to visit the two areas first to see the character of each, assuming you indeed are not considering anywhere else.
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Old 08-02-2010, 09:28 PM
 
18 posts, read 35,472 times
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Thank you for your reply.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Francois View Post
#3 first: Yes, there is a Tech university here: NC State University. Very well-known for its Engineering school.

This leads to #2: I think finding "skilled people for low wages" will be harder here due to the talent attracted by NCSU. Now, perhaps the recession and reasonably high unemployment and tech layoffs, in NC will help your desire to pay "low payroll costs", but it would seem that you'll do better on that front in an area with less of a technical talent base. And I won't in good conscience tell you to relocate here when your plan is to pay as little as you can get away with.
I have tried to express myself properly in this matter, but it appears I have not done that clearly enough. I'm sorry you got this bad impression of me, but I don't believe it's correct. As I said, I'm looking for normal people, for normal wages. I'm not sure how you can read 'normal/avarage wages' (the words I used) as 'pay as little as I can get away with'. Anyway, I'm not looking in paying poorly and expect the best, I'm not doing that either with the people that are currently working with us. The thing I tried to explain is that there are huge differences in wages in different areas. That could depend the cost of living (Washington or NY will pay a lot more, but your cost of living is also 50% higher, so people NEED higher wages). As I can choose my location, it makes sense not to locate in Washington but in an area where cost of living is lower which usually results in lower wages. Especially because my revenue will not go up or down based on the area I will settle down.

Also, if the area is very competitive in a specific area (like tech), this could rise wages while quality of work remains the same. This could also be a reason to favour one area over another.

In both cases this has nothing to do with trying to benefit from people, it's about finding a proper balance between my costs and what people consider to be a proper payment. That will make them happy, make me happy, and makes the city happy (jobs are a good thing right with 10% unemployment?). Therefore I was wondering how the average wages are in that area. This is essential for a small company like mine. For me paying 50k or 100k a year is a huge difference. I hope I made myself clear this time.

Last edited by Matjong; 08-02-2010 at 09:52 PM..
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Old 08-03-2010, 09:58 AM
 
18 posts, read 35,472 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Francois View Post
The Triangle area in general is liberal for a Southern state (generally votes Democratic locally, leans Republican nationwide though the state went for Obama in 2008--though if you are from out of the US, your political framework is probably different than what I can describe) but really, it's about as politically moderate an area, overall, as you can imagine. WE have all types and they generally coexist. You don't tend to see many "extremists" in either direction. But again, I don't know what your definition of "liberal" and "conservative" are compared to what we'd use here. There are lots of churches here, but most folks are not "in your face" about religion (or lack thereof).
Yes, the political framework in Europe is indeed different than the US. What is considered liberal in the US is considered conservative in my home country (The Netherlands). I know the US quite well though and I think I'm able to put things in perspective. Therefore your explanation is very useful to me, thank you! Regarding your comment our religion: Our country is very secular compared to US, but my wife is religious (I'm not) so we're both very comfortable with religious or less religious people and areas.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Francois View Post
Atlanta is a more international city than the Triangle--actually it is MUCH more of a "city" in every way--but I think your desire for lowball wages will be more of a problem than your nationality. I think you'll want to visit the two areas first to see the character of each, assuming you indeed are not considering anywhere else.
We visited Atlanta 2 weeks ago and we are currently in Raleigh and will stay here for another few days. We visited many places in the US (we've been in the US for 5 months) but those 2 are our favorite so far to actually settle down. My wife is pregnant and from what we've seen Raleigh area seems a very child oriented place, which we LOVE!

We visited some Cary neighborhoods yesterday and saw some nice ones. We can see the difference between Atlanta and Raleigh and both places seem to have pros and cons for us. It's gonna be a though decision, that's for sure.
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Old 08-03-2010, 04:57 PM
 
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if I was moving to the USA from another country for a 'fresh start' one of the main decisions in deciding where to locate would be the taxes. You do mention it almost as an after thought, but if your business is successful you want want to reconsider which state you want to live in. Have you considered Texas which has no state income tax? you may find Austin as a great location to base yourself and save 7% of your income which is the amount you will pay in NC state income taxes. Texas consistently is the number 1 business friendly state and Austin is very similar in lifestyle to the Triangle. Just a thought for your consideration.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Matjong View Post
My wife and me are moving from Europe to the US. We started with quite a list of possibly cities to settle, but at this point The Triangle Area and Atlanta are the only ones left on that list.

We are running an online advertisement company. All our business activities are already in the US, so it makes perfect sense to make the move from Europe to the US. We are not bound by geographical restrictions. All our activities take place online, and the geographical area is not of any impact on our revenue.

What does matter however, is the cost of living, quality of life, and the business costs (office space and availability, avarage wages, education level, taxes) of the area. As our income is the same whether we go to Atlanta or Raleigh, the costs of the area and the quality of life are very important to us.
.
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Old 08-03-2010, 07:03 PM
 
18 posts, read 35,472 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beermat View Post
if I was moving to the USA from another country for a 'fresh start' one of the main decisions in deciding where to locate would be the taxes. You do mention it almost as an after thought, but if your business is successful you want want to reconsider which state you want to live in. Have you considered Texas which has no state income tax? you may find Austin as a great location to base yourself and save 7% of your income which is the amount you will pay in NC state income taxes. Texas consistently is the number 1 business friendly state and Austin is very similar in lifestyle to the Triangle. Just a thought for your consideration.
You have a very good point there, and we have looked a lot into that matter quite a bit already. Unfortunately both NC (Triangle) as GA (Atlanta) have quite high taxes.

There are however 2 things that are very important to us. First of all, we like to stay in East Coast. That means shorter flights to our home country. We like to be easily connected with our family and friends. Also, the US is such a huge country that we where unable to travel everywhere to check out places, so we decided to limit ourselves at the East Coast. We did check out Florida (no state tax either) but we didn't like it quite as much as Atlanta or the Triangle.

Secondly, in the US even the highest taxes are low for our standards. My country, the Netherlands, has one of the highest taxes in the world. We have 34-52% income tax depending on the tax bracket, and the highest bracket already starts at 60k. And we're only talking income tax now. I'm not even talking about the sale tax of 19%, or the property/gasoline tax and all other taxes we have in NL. For our standards, anywhere in US will mean a huge tax cut.
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Old 08-04-2010, 12:14 PM
 
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Quote:
Secondly, in the US even the highest taxes are low for our standards. My country, the Netherlands, has one of the highest taxes in the world. We have 34-52% income tax depending on the tax bracket, and the highest bracket already starts at 60k. And we're only talking income tax now. I'm not even talking about the sale tax of 19%, or the property/gasoline tax and all other taxes we have in NL. For our standards, anywhere in US will mean a huge tax cut.
The US may be behind in the tax race, but give us a little time. The way the government is going we will catch up quickly.

Quote:
There are however 2 things that are very important to us. First of all, we like to stay in East Coast. That means shorter flights to our home country. We like to be easily connected with our family and friends.
One thing to consider is the number of international flights of which Raleigh has little to none. Not sure about Atlanta, but must have a lot more than Raleigh.
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Old 08-04-2010, 01:45 PM
 
18 posts, read 35,472 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffs555 View Post
The US may be behind in the tax race, but give us a little time. The way the government is going we will catch up quickly.


One thing to consider is the number of international flights of which Raleigh has little to none. Not sure about Atlanta, but must have a lot more than Raleigh.
Well, in my current country they consider to raise taxes as well while it's that high already. It seems to be more like a international way to fix the debts all governments made last few years. Anyway, moving to the US will probably save me 20-25% taxes in total, which is HUGE and I don't think it will get on the same level soon.

You are very right about the direct flights. There is a direct flight from Atlanta to Amsterdam, the place I live right now. Raleigh has direct flights to United Kingdom though, and from there it's only 1 hour to The Netherlands. To fly from Raleigh instead of Atlanta takes 3 hours more, and is not direct flight, but it's still good enough.

We have been looking in Apex yesterday and saw some very nice neighborhoods. Prices seem very similar to Atlanta area. We also spend a few hours at the lake nearby which is very nice, I really liked it.
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Old 01-30-2011, 08:00 PM
 
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Default Raleigh Durham Facts

More than 43% of the total population has at least a bachelor’s degree according to CNN Money.com. The population has grown rapidly over the last 10 years and continues to grow. The NewandObersver.com estimates the Raleigh-Durham-Cary-Chapel Hill population at 1.74 million people.

Raleigh is consistently ranked as a top ten place to work and live according to many national publications such as Money Magazine, Forbes and The Wall Street Journal. Go to Google and check out the highest ranking publications say about Raleigh Durham.

Last edited by Green Irish Eyes; 01-30-2011 at 08:08 PM.. Reason: Links to blogs are NOT allowed.
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