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Old 07-12-2007, 11:22 AM
rfb
 
Location: Raleigh, NC
2,593 posts, read 6,340,589 times
Reputation: 2822

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Quote:
Originally Posted by roscomac View Post
I lived in Richmond, and the equivalent to the beltline around the city was a toll road. I thought it worked very well. It seemed fair to me that the people using the road should pay for it. (I was one of those.) Regular users buy a pass and get a discount. And traffic is manageable because those who don't want to pay take other routes.
While that sounds fair at first blush, I don't think it really is. Why should I have to pay for free roads for others via my general taxes, and then pay tolls (e.g., additional, targeted taxes) for the roads that I use? It would be more fair if all roads were free and supported by taxes, or all roads were toll roads and supported only via tolls (i.e., by those who use them).

Me? I'd rather just pay for my roads via regular taxes. Seems there would be much less overhead in not having to build toll booths and pay folks to staff the booths.
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Old 07-12-2007, 11:30 AM
 
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Related Thread:

//www.city-data.com/forum/ralei...toll-road.html
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Old 07-12-2007, 11:47 AM
 
Location: Wake Forest, NC
842 posts, read 3,225,781 times
Reputation: 379
Quote:
Originally Posted by rfb View Post
While that sounds fair at first blush, I don't think it really is. Why should I have to pay for free roads for others via my general taxes, and then pay tolls (e.g., additional, targeted taxes) for the roads that I use? It would be more fair if all roads were free and supported by taxes, or all roads were toll roads and supported only via tolls (i.e., by those who use them).

Me? I'd rather just pay for my roads via regular taxes. Seems there would be much less overhead in not having to build toll booths and pay folks to staff the booths.
The fairest option would be if all roads were paid for with only gas taxes, and gas taxes were used only for roads. After all, if I'm a recluse who never steps foot out of my house, or I use a bicycle for transportation, why should my property taxes pay for roads that I never use?
Then your choice becomes simple....want better roads? Then you have to pay higher gas taxes...plain and simple. No smoke-and-mirrors of politicians saying that we don't need to raise gas taxes because we can get the money from elsewhere (i.e. less visible taxes...but taxes nonetheless). And the higher gas prices would help limit sprawl, make public transportation more viable, and encourage better fuel efficiency in vehicles.

But it will never happen. To fully fund roads, gas taxes would need to be raised such that a gallon of gas is around $6/gallon. And no one is willing to pay $6/gallon, even though you're doing it anyway through higher property, income, and sales taxes. Americans simply feel that it's their God-given right to have cheap gas, even though it's all an illusion.
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Old 07-12-2007, 12:29 PM
 
9,680 posts, read 27,126,288 times
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We really need to control sprawl so mass transit can take a lot of load off the roads.
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Old 07-12-2007, 12:47 PM
 
515 posts, read 1,034,117 times
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I agree with funding transportation with gas taxes, it's a very efficient means of collection, and it is an incentive to reduce driving. But I also think there needs to be a public transportation infrastructure, and promotion of alternate means (like bicyles)....if you've ever been to a major european city, the public transportation is usually fantastic and tons of cyclists...really makes for vibrant cities.

Currently I cycle the 20 miles to and from work, and it's the best part of my day. In this region bike commuting is a viable option year round...
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Old 07-12-2007, 01:18 PM
 
3,021 posts, read 11,044,842 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by monkeyboy View Post
....if you've ever been to a major european city, the public transportation is usually fantastic and tons of cyclists...really makes for vibrant cities.
The main reason why those European cities are so compact and walkable (or bike-able as the case may be) is because those cities are so old. The cities were planned and built long before the automobile was invented and during times when your average citizen could not even afford to own a horse. They had to be walkable because that was the main way people got around. It also made it easier to integrate public transportation when the time came.

Most of the growth taking place in American cities is taking place in the age of the automobile. As has been said over and over again, Americans LOVE their cars and the freedom they provide. But cars take up space. And Americans only want to go where there is space for those cars. Just think about it. When you ask people why they don't spend more time downtown, the main reason they list is parking. Newer parts of the city are designed with cars in mind, though, so they are more popular. But again, cars take up space. And that space leads to sprawl. It's a vicious cycle.
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Old 07-12-2007, 01:53 PM
 
Location: Clayton
35 posts, read 115,418 times
Reputation: 13
Quote:
Originally Posted by dukkha2 View Post
We bought a house in Glen Laurel, Clayton. Moving in next month.

How do I get to 540 from Glen Laurel ?

Come out Glen Laurel to 42-turn L- merge onto 70 take the Raleigh I40 exit (not sure of the number, if there is one) then take exit #301 (Inner Beltline) Then take the Exit for 64E Bypass THEN jump on 540 from there. There's only one way you can go on 540 from 64 Bypass since the constructions comes to a complete halt.

Sounds like a long way, but it's really not.
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Old 07-12-2007, 01:57 PM
 
515 posts, read 1,034,117 times
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It's chicken and the egg, the reason you need a car is lack of other convienient alternatives. I'm originally from Boston, and you had to be a masochist to drive into the city. But you didn't have to because there is (what used to be) a very good public transportation system. The problem is, no one thinks further than the next 6 months ahead (plus the municiple unions suck up every last cent of tax revenue, and most government projects are completely mismanaged aka Big Dig)....
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Old 07-12-2007, 05:44 PM
 
9,680 posts, read 27,126,288 times
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New stretch should open Saturday.
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Old 07-13-2007, 05:56 AM
 
Location: Franklinton
180 posts, read 661,763 times
Reputation: 35
I know! I hope it positively affects the traffic in the area...
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