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Fair enough, but based on what we see here (let's just assume for a minute that the people of the Triangle forum here represent a fairly broad cross-section of the Triangle population) that the public support is indeed low.
The problem, really, is that you don't let the college kids vote. Rail connecting NCSU, UNC-Chapel Hill, Duke, even Shaw....it'd be a whole new world for them.
Indeed, that would be interesting. I plan on keeping an eye on the Light Rail Situation. BTW, have you checked out the urbanplanet.org Triangle Area forum? You can find it at: UrbanPlanet.org -> The NC Triangle
There has been some great discussion there about regional transit issues here in the Triangle. Some of the posters there are really on top of things.
It seems like there are so many things going on in the Triangle right now like the Downtown Raleigh and Durham Revitalization Initiatives, Billion Dollar School Bonds, I-540 Toll / No Toll Debate, Light Rail / No light Rail Debate that solving any one of these issues without neglecting the others is difficult if not impossible. At this point I think most of the governmental focus and energy has gone to dealing with school overcrowding issues because of the volume of public outcry. I agree with you that increased public support can only help the cause of getting a light rail system here in the Triangle. Hopefully that public support will reach a critical mass sooner rather than later!
I dont know a single person that I am friends/family with that would use a rail system. We love the freedom of our personal vehicles. Increased telecommuting would be the best traffic reduction alternative out there imo. Really, how many people have to be at the office to perform their job? In some situations it is unavoidable but alot of work can be done offsite from home. Unfortunately, that method is too simplistic and doesnt let the gov't collect yet another tax though, so I dont hold my breath.
The colleges would likely provide enough riders to keep it viable in and of itself. If you live in the suburbs where everyone owns a car, then of course you don't know anyone who would use it. But not everyone is a suburban dweller who commutes 30 miles to work. There are institutions that bring in a lot of people who tend to be less likely to drive or own a car. For this reason I actually consider the Triangle a better rail candidate than Houston or Charlotte (which either have or are getting light rail) because you can pretty easily link a large number of key institutions with much less rail mileage than you would have to in the cities that have already sprawled out in every which direction.
However, it's the people who own the cars and the homes who have all the power there. And as long as that's in place you are looking at less green.
You can't keep that freeway system like it is for much longer. Everyone moving in is either bringing a car or buying one when they get there. Let's see what happens with the commuter rail.
I don't feel more free in a car when I'm in a city. I like the feeling on the open road. But in the city I want to interact with people. Cars make hermits out of people and isolated tribes out of families. I feel more free in the city when I don't have to stop moving just because everyone else does. If there is a holdup with the rail I can just start walking along the line and eventually I'll hit the next station and maybe I can catch up with a car there. When you're in a traffic jam on the freeway there's no abandoning your car in the name of making progress somewhere somehow. I could have walked across Raleigh faster than I could have driven the day I-40 shut down. I didn't need to be there. I can watch the national news.
It is not because I live in the suburbs where everyone owns a car that I feel this way, it is that I have lived here since 4 years of age(30 years ago) and this topic has been coming up since the mid to late 80's. Why would college kids need a light rail? Everything they need is within 1 mile of campus with most living within 3-4 miles of campus. With walking, bikes, cars, and bus lines they are pretty well taken care of. Increased telecommute costs us nothing and saves businesses money by not needing such a large building. Perhaps building an RTP 2.0 on the other side of the triangle would help to distribute jobs and traffic a little better. There has to be options that wont cost the taxpayers hundreds of millions for something alot of people just simply wont use.
It is not because I live in the suburbs where everyone owns a car that I feel this way, it is that I have lived here since 4 years of age(30 years ago) and this topic has been coming up since the mid to late 80's. Why would college kids need a light rail? Everything they need is within 1 mile of campus with most living within 3-4 miles of campus.
They might want to go someplace besides their boring part of town? Remember that students are social creatures looking to get away from campus anytime they can.
3-4 miles is a long way to walk each way from class to wherever they're living. You don't think any of them would take the rail?
Before you answer, let's stop thinking like 30-40-something year old suburbanites for just a minute and put ourselves in the shoes of a 21-year-old student who doesn't own a car. So you're at NCSU, girlfriend's at Chapel Hill? We've got a couple likely frequent rail riders right there. Between the students and the business commuters there will be riders.
Now that's kinda cool. Some of those new buildings almost look like they belong in Vegas. Let's see if they can keep some of that greenery around....could only find the b/w photo that showed the most detail of the new skyline.
But.....you've got more cars coming in, going everywhere. Going across town. Going around the corner to get more gas to burn. Going to work. Going home from work. Telecommuting can't be done all the time, everywhere. If it could, Bismarck, North Dakota would have as many IT jobs as the Triangle. Then there are the people who get out of the house and go places for reasons other than work.
Will Raleigh look more like this in the future?
That was taken from the University of Houston, ca. 2005.
UH will be connected with light rail in 2012. They will be able to get to downtown (which you see in the foreground, behind the smog) using the rail. Raleigh and the Triangle are far enough from the coast that you have days where no air is moving, so everyone idling in rush-hour traffic will do little to disperse all the exhaust.
People here are committing to mass transit so we can see the growing amount of green and beauty that can be found here as in Raleigh, which is becoming a big city whether anyone's ready for it or not.
Aerial shot of downtown Houston, ca. 2002 and pre-light rail. Toyota Center (sports arena) can be seen under construction on the lower right-hand edge. See the green? No you don't. It's not there. What do you see? You see massive parking lots. Isn't that ugly?
Now, the city of Houston is working on turning some of those parking lots into parks, now that we have commuters who are using the light rail. The new rail line will enfranchise even more commuters as it will run through more residential areas. The people who drive to their jobs downtown are doing it out of choice because they want to live in the suburbs. Meanwhile, there are people moving to the center of the city where it is still affordable and they don't have to drive.
Simply put - we're seeing this in action here - rail will help attract a new type of professional to Raleigh who lives near his/her job and rarely drives. If there was not a market for this, they would not be building condos downtown. The greater percentage of new arrivals in the Triangle who follow this model are more likely to use transit (they wouldn't have to drive no matter if they work in downtown or RTP) and less likely to clog the Triangle's beleaguered freeway system on which one major accident in the wrong place can cause gridlock for miles in every direction.
There will be people who still want to live 30 miles away from where they work. They like driving. They like paying to pump gas but they like to complain because the tax dollars they have no control over on any day that is not Election Day might go to mass transit instead of another strip of concrete to idle upon.
Wow, do you have a financial interest in a rail company? lol
I am all for keeping (whats left of) the beauty of our area. The estimation of 10,200 daily riders (#'s provided by the gov't) just does not have a promising cost to use ratio. This has been debated for almost 20 years now so how about we just agree to disagree? I will be driving regardless of what we have as I inspect houses/buildings and you probably cant carry ladders on the rail cars lol.
I do appreciate the information...always nice to get alternate perspective.
Wow, do you have a financial interest in a rail company? lol
I am all for keeping (whats left of) the beauty of our area. The estimation of 10,200 daily riders (#'s provided by the gov't) just does not have a promising cost to use ratio. This has been debated for almost 20 years now so how about we just agree to disagree? I will be driving regardless of what we have as I inspect houses/buildings and you probably cant carry ladders on the rail cars lol.
I do appreciate the information...always nice to get alternate perspective.
No. I grew up in and around that city you see at the bottom (which is traditionally run by the oil/energy industry), sat through too many traffic jams on those same freeways you see in the picture and decided a long time ago that there has got to be a better way.
I was surprised to see the small milk-crate sized recycling bin the city gives you. Does anyone know if you can have more than one? I typically filled up the recycling bin before the trash can (same size in CA). If they fine people for throwing away recyclables, I'm going to be in big trouble since my recycling bin is overflowing and trash pick up is still 2 days away!
you can ask for another one. We've always had more than one.
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