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New teachers are not better than veteran teachers, and veteran teachers are not better than new teachers. There are good, poor, and mediocre teachers at every step.
So why is teacher pay directly correlated with longevity of service?
Quote:
However, we are not attracting our best and brightest to the profession. When I ask my honors and AP students who is considering teaching as a profession, I get ZERO hands. Many teachers with advanced degrees in their fields leave the profession for other work. If we truly value education, we will decide to attract and retain the best teachers. Once the field is sufficiently competitive, the problem with incompetence will largely disappear.
Do you feel the best and brightest are needed to teach? I'm not sure I would agree with that.
So why is teacher pay directly correlated with longevity of service?
Do you feel the best and brightest are needed to teach? I'm not sure I would agree with that.
Great points. In the private sector I am rewarded for achievement and accomplishments, not for how long I have been serving (especially if the reason I have been serving so long is because they are not allowed to get rid of me due to the language in my employment contract).
I always thought (in high school and college) the most effective person to explain a given topic (generally math and sciences because that is most of what I took) was the student who had just learned the topic.
They could put the topic in terms a contemporary could understand and had a fresh set of eyes on the subject, whereas the teacher/professor had taught the topic so many times that they had a more difficult time understanding that someone else did not fully comprehend the material.
Many years ago I taught a few classes while a graduate student. I think many educators would argue that knowing the "science" of educating is different than knowing the "science" of, say, physics.
So the tricky details include how you measure and evaluate an educator. Especially if you agree that you need to normalize the student population. One suggested method was incoming/outgoing testing with the delta improvement (as opposed to the absolute value) attributed to the teacher.
I do find it odd that, while imperfect, employee evaluations/merit reviews that have been a fact of life in many parts of the private sector for many years are still widely resisted by educators. My wife taught in the public school system for 10 years before the frustration drove her back to school for her third college degree, a career change, and into the private sector where she now sucessfully runs her own business and mentors college students.
Where did you get that 55K number from was it just a guess? Did you include the 6% teachers are forced to put into their pension? The state puts in 8.75% -6% teachers = 2.75% net gain. 34K salary + 5K for health insurance + $935 retirement, + $2100 SS tax = 42K. Even if you take away the teachers 6% contribution your only at 44K.m I missing something?
I think some would argue with the structure of your calculations. You and the other poster are looking at it differently. The 6% teachers contribute to retirement is not a rebate to tax payers but instead an investment in their future.
So why is teacher pay directly correlated with longevity of service?
Do you feel the best and brightest are needed to teach? I'm not sure I would agree with that.
Valid or not retention is considered a must in education. Schools and school districts are measure and shout out their retention rates are good. Everyone within the profession is so very focused on happy employees, perhaps more so than productive employees.
It's the approximate value of the pension (see my original post).
For example, let's say someone is paid $20,000 a year, but after 10 years they can retire and receive a $36,000 a year pension. $36k has an approximate value of around $750,000, which was earned after 10 years. So that's another $75,000 a year in benefit.
The average teacher pension benefit, based upon length of service till retirement, and amount received, is worth about an extra $20k a year. That is a rough estimate.
There are districts that provide teachers the value of their compensation on a yearly basis measured by government contributions. The value of their pension long term is not included but the dollar amount of their government contribution is. Not to get off topic but on average 76% of teacher pension payout nationally is employee contribution and ROI(Return on Investment).
The straight up way of calculating it is:
Salary
Benenfits ( health, pension, insurance etc).
you can't ask someone to contribute 6% of their salary invest it and when they get that 6% back plus their ROI claim you gave them something.
There are districts that provide teachers the value of their compensation on a yearly basis measured by government contributions. The value of their pension long term is not included but the dollar amount of their government contribution is. Not to get off topic but on average 76% of teacher pension payout nationally is employee contribution and ROI(Return on Investment).
The straight up way of calculating it is:
Salary
Benenfits ( health, pension, insurance etc).
you can't ask someone to contribute 6% of their salary invest it and when they get that 6% back plus their ROI claim you gave them something.
Damn right! But the dumb populace thinks teachers are taking all of their tax dollars and work only 10 months.
Damn right! But the dumb populace thinks teachers are taking all of their tax dollars and work only 10 months.
Friend I am on your side but you do only work 10 months for your teacher contract. You might do other things but summer related work is voluntary and usually with additional compensation. You do the math a 192 contracted day work year comes out to 38.4 weeks which is 13.6 weeks shy of a full year. You might be employed for 52 weeks on a returning contract but you aren't even working 40 full time weeks. Working 4 days and having 1 off because of a holiday doesn't constitute a full week to many. Now depending on the profession very few work a 52 week but even with 4 weeks vacation and holidays the average professional is probably putting in 46 plus. if not closer to 47. Do the math that is about a two month difference for those with 4 weeks vacation but for others who only get 2 you know the answer. One of the big draws of the profession is summers off once you can afford them and the ability to be home with your kids and also work. You do the math if you are a high school teacher and school ends at 2:15. If you stay 2 more hours it is still only 4:15 and you can be home in little time. Another secret of the profession that is a big plus and many don't realize it. Most people work in industrial and commercial areas that have a greater density of work population connected by major roads and lots of congestion at rush hour and not real close to most residential neighborhoods. Schools are in residential neighborhoods and it is much more possible to live closer to home once you are settled in to school and family. Some districts if they have to reassign teachers try to place them close to home. If you are elementary you don't get out as early but your go in later and can get your kids off to school after a certain age. Yes teachers work a longer day than contracted for but you can grade papers and do lesson plans etc at home and be there for your kids. You can take them to practice and put them to bed at 8:30 and then do your school work. Wow with computers it is even easier. There are a lot of pluses to the profession and we ought not get upset if the pluses rub people the wrong way. The best argument for salaries and benefits is supply and demand and those days will be back soon. Sooner than folks may realize and it may be a crisis.
Last edited by TuborgP; 06-23-2011 at 07:57 PM..
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