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Old 08-19-2011, 05:44 PM
 
22 posts, read 59,828 times
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Apex Middle School has had a terrible time keeping teachers in the Algebra I slot. My daughter went there several years ago and had three teachers in one year. She did ok in the class and easily passed the End of Course exam, but that does not provide the math confidence to excel in upper math courses. Our son just finished at Apex Middle and had three teachers in one year...and did not do as well.

When you put teachers in a class with 28 students of various abilities, is everyone ready for the challenge?

The reality is the "ready" kids don't get what they need...and the "not ready" kids get frustrated and check out...and the teachers burn out from dealing with over-sized classes of miss-matched ability levels.
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Old 08-19-2011, 05:49 PM
 
Location: Cary, NC
8,269 posts, read 25,108,254 times
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They're not supposed to be in the class if they're not ready for it.
Luckily, WCPSS high school has an Algebra 1 plus course intended for students who took algebra 1 in 8th grade, but did not do that great in it.
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Old 08-19-2011, 05:49 PM
 
11,151 posts, read 15,835,047 times
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Why are the "not ready" kids in the class to begin with?
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Old 08-19-2011, 06:29 PM
 
3,265 posts, read 3,193,891 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark of the Moon View Post
Why are the "not ready" kids in the class to begin with?
Because a spreadsheet program said so.

Schools work to get all fit eighth-graders into algebra - Wake County - NewsObserver.com

Quote:
The Republican school board majority that took office in December 2009 has made increasing Algebra I enrollment one of its major issues. Board members have repeatedly cited a report done in 2009 by the SAS Institute in Cary.
Quote:
The policy says all middle school students whom a SAS computer program determines to have at least a 70 percent probability of success will be placed in advanced math classes such as Algebra I. The policy would restrict teachers from using their judgment to hold back students the computer program has determined to be ready.
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Old 08-19-2011, 06:54 PM
 
906 posts, read 2,382,037 times
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The children being placed in Algebra I are qualified to be there. A very common misconception is that we have lowered the standards to allow more minority and low income kids into the higher math track but that is not true. Many people think that we had previously been placing only the top scoring kids in Algebra I but that is also not true. Many children who had previously been left out of Alg I were actually much higher scoring that some of the kids who were placed in Algebra I.

Many people predicted that once we started letting EVAAS qualified kids into Alg, that we'd see the scores go down dramatically. Didn't happen. I don't have the numbers with me at this moment but the percentage of kids who passed the Algebra EOC was not significantly lower even though we doubled (?) the number of kids in the course.

This is about making sure we set high expectations for our students, and that we challenge them to go above and beyond. We're not talking about pushing kids who aren't ready--we are simply identifying the kids who are ready. We all have a bias and unfortunately, the culture in WCPSS has been that of lowering the expectations for our minority and low income kids. Well meaning teachers were keeping kids out of the higher math track our of fear of pushing them too hard, fear that nobody at home could help them with homework, because they had a hard family life, etc. These are all reasons that well-meaning teachers have given for why they've not placed kids higher. They didn't want to set them up for failure by giving them something that might be too hard.

Dr. Angel Harris from Princeton refers to this as being racism--not a capital R, intentional, malicious Racism, but a form of racism (or classicm) just the same. We have to address it head on before we can fix it.

I'm very passionate about this and am a member of the Economically Disadvantaged Student Performance Task Force. Several middle school principals have had tremendous success with this and many of them say it took some convincing to get the teachers on board with this but they have come around to embracing this program. It is amazing what our students can do if we believe in their abilities and expect them to achieve what they are capable of. The excitement was palpable at this week's specially called meeting when we got real answers to the placement question. Administrators, principals, & community members--black, white, diversity policy supporters and opponents--they all celebrated this one victory and it was wonderful to see.

I apologize for this being so long and a bit off topic from the OP. Like I said, I am passionate about this subject! I will also disclose that for those of you who don't know, I am running for Wake County Board of Education in District 3.
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Old 08-19-2011, 07:09 PM
 
22 posts, read 59,828 times
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Testing does not gauge readiness or real potential for success. And I really am talking about all testing...

This is only my opinion...so don't shoot me....the EOC tests are a joke that have no real bearing on how students will do in the "real life" world of upper-level classes or college.

This coming from a parent whose "genius" child "aced" all EOCs and the SATs...and still does not perform well in school.

Probably faulty parenting on my part
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Old 08-19-2011, 09:09 PM
 
Location: NC
4,532 posts, read 8,871,316 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by raleighjayne View Post
The children being placed in Algebra I are qualified to be there. A very common misconception is that we have lowered the standards to allow more minority and low income kids into the higher math track but that is not true. Many people think that we had previously been placing only the top scoring kids in Algebra I but that is also not true. Many children who had previously been left out of Alg I were actually much higher scoring that some of the kids who were placed in Algebra I.

Many people predicted that once we started letting EVAAS qualified kids into Alg, that we'd see the scores go down dramatically. Didn't happen. I don't have the numbers with me at this moment but the percentage of kids who passed the Algebra EOC was not significantly lower even though we doubled (?) the number of kids in the course.

This is about making sure we set high expectations for our students, and that we challenge them to go above and beyond. We're not talking about pushing kids who aren't ready--we are simply identifying the kids who are ready. We all have a bias and unfortunately, the culture in WCPSS has been that of lowering the expectations for our minority and low income kids. Well meaning teachers were keeping kids out of the higher math track our of fear of pushing them too hard, fear that nobody at home could help them with homework, because they had a hard family life, etc. These are all reasons that well-meaning teachers have given for why they've not placed kids higher. They didn't want to set them up for failure by giving them something that might be too hard.

Dr. Angel Harris from Princeton refers to this as being racism--not a capital R, intentional, malicious Racism, but a form of racism (or classicm) just the same. We have to address it head on before we can fix it.

I'm very passionate about this and am a member of the Economically Disadvantaged Student Performance Task Force. Several middle school principals have had tremendous success with this and many of them say it took some convincing to get the teachers on board with this but they have come around to embracing this program. It is amazing what our students can do if we believe in their abilities and expect them to achieve what they are capable of. The excitement was palpable at this week's specially called meeting when we got real answers to the placement question. Administrators, principals, & community members--black, white, diversity policy supporters and opponents--they all celebrated this one victory and it was wonderful to see.

I apologize for this being so long and a bit off topic from the OP. Like I said, I am passionate about this subject! I will also disclose that for those of you who don't know, I am running for Wake County Board of Education in District 3.
Thank you! That is for stating this and being such an advocate. You are absolutely right about this. And yes, scores are pretty close to what they were before these children were placed in these classes. This is your most meaningful, educational post yet.

Many of us parents owe a lot to whomever championed this process. My now 8th grade daughter benefitted from this identification process while at Heritage MS. She always did very well in Math yet was only placed in pre-Algebra in 7th grade based on the SAS program. She tested at 97+ % probability of passing Algebra. I hesitated to share this as it comes across as boastful, which I do not like to do or hear about our kids as I feel they all have special talents, some identified some not. And I used to work in a university dept where I heard it from EVERY (helicopter) parent I dealt with. Anyhow, I shared this to show the good this program has done. However, the OP has a good point....I wonder, are the teachers being supported in this effort? And, if it took some convincing for them, could some still show resentment towards the kids, I hope not. My child had a wonderful experience at Heritage, her teacher did a fantastic job! Perhaps Apex school could seek guidance from Heritage as to how they have been successful with this?
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Old 08-20-2011, 01:46 AM
 
3,265 posts, read 3,193,891 times
Reputation: 1440
Quote:
Originally Posted by allaboutthekids View Post
Testing does not gauge readiness or real potential for success. And I really am talking about all testing...

This is only my opinion...so don't shoot me....the EOC tests are a joke that have no real bearing on how students will do in the "real life" world of upper-level classes or college.

This coming from a parent whose "genius" child "aced" all EOCs and the SATs...and still does not perform well in school.

Probably faulty parenting on my part
Speaking from my experience having taught a few sections of college Algebra in grad school way back in the Pleistocene epoch, whether or not someone gets into Algebra I in 8th grade or 9th grade has almost zero effect on their ability to comprehend the material, nor is it much of an indicator of their potential for success in college level mathematics. Ostensibly the thought process behind pushing kids into Algebra before high school is to give them the opportunity to finish one form or other of Calculus their senior year, for college preparation purposes. However few majors outside the STEM family require anything beyond the first course of the Calculus sequence for math proficiency as part of their core curricula/general ed requirement, and even then generally the required course is an intro to statistics. Further, the GRE quantitative section doesn't test for anything beyond what the SAT/general ACT test for i.e. basic Algebra/Geometry/Trig.
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Old 08-20-2011, 05:33 AM
 
Location: On the brink of WWIII
21,088 posts, read 29,223,196 times
Reputation: 7812
Is it that Wake County is hiring NEW and INEXPERIENCED teachers to save money? Besides being Algebra I, middle school is TOUGH on a new teacher with zero experience.
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Old 08-20-2011, 09:31 AM
 
Location: Cary, NC
8,269 posts, read 25,108,254 times
Reputation: 5591
Quote:
Originally Posted by box_of_zip_disks View Post
Speaking from my experience having taught a few sections of college Algebra in grad school way back in the Pleistocene epoch, whether or not someone gets into Algebra I in 8th grade or 9th grade has almost zero effect on their ability to comprehend the material, nor is it much of an indicator of their potential for success in college level mathematics. Ostensibly the thought process behind pushing kids into Algebra before high school is to give them the opportunity to finish one form or other of Calculus their senior year, for college preparation purposes. However few majors outside the STEM family require anything beyond the first course of the Calculus sequence for math proficiency as part of their core curricula/general ed requirement, and even then generally the required course is an intro to statistics. Further, the GRE quantitative section doesn't test for anything beyond what the SAT/general ACT test for i.e. basic Algebra/Geometry/Trig.
This is easily accomplished through the block schedule for a freshman taking algebra 1 if a student takes 2 math classes per semester. My daughter did that and will be taking precalc this semester, calc next semester and she's only a junior so she has an entire extra year to take more math if she wants to. I have heard, however, that because of budge cuts and reduction in staff, some schools are not allowing kids to take 2 maths a year. We're very happy that we have that option.
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