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Having the most dense populated city in North Carolina light rail would be ideal. One of the things businesses look at to relocate is transportation options. Critrix is a perfect example, why do you think they are in the process of moving so close to the "union station". People say to beef up the busing but you got to think buses have to sit in traffic too. Everything is too spread out here in Sprawleigh so I do not seeing it happening anytime soon. Before this city even breaks ground on a light rail system I would be moved away and enjoying another city.
Remember, Charlotte was once a conservative city, but has pretty much cemented itself as a quite progressive city in just the last decade. Inevitably, as a city grows and becomes densely populated, it becomes more politically and socially liberal. Until now, Raleigh has been a very suburban city, but if its population explosion continues, it will soon become much denser and more urban. That transformation into a real urban city will have political implications.
Raleigh is already more liberal than Charlotte, and anywhere else in the state except Chapel Hill, Durham, and Asheville.
Mass transit is not a left/right issue. Some try to turn it into one but remember that many conservative business types in Charlotte supported the rail line. They knew that it was a long-term investment in the city's economic growth. They knew what happened in Maryland and Northern Virginia after DC's rail system was built and they knew that even if the cost per rider was high initially, and even if the train line lacked coverage, that it would cause Charlotte to grow in a more sustainable way and that is clearly happening.
The problem is that in Raleigh, some people are very short-sighted, and they tend to be very loud.
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Originally Posted by wizard-xyzzy
It's mostly politics. Raleigh is politically more conservative than Durham; Wake County outside Raleigh is more conservative than Raleigh. But it's also the reality of how rail lines were built in the 1800s. Going back to the TTA plan of the 1990s, the rail corridor from Wake Forest into downtown Raleigh, then into downtown Cary, then up through RTP towards Durham is really the only option for light rail in Raleigh -- unless you want to spend a gigabuck. But this routing leaves most of north Raleigh out in the cold.
It actually doesn't. I think a strong case could be made that North Raleigh would benefit from a rail line indirectly. The bus system for the city would be remapped to take advantage of the rail network and wait times and station distance in North Raleigh would both be improved. On top of that, whenever you went to North Hills and parked think of all the network benefits you'd have: anywhere in downtown Raleigh or Durham, any of the universities, the airport, the fairgrounds, all without having to face traffic.
This would particularly help out traffic congestion during games between the universities, and during the state fair.
There are other indirect benefits. Raleigh is potentially losing business to Charlotte right now because they have a rail system, and we don't. Companies looking for more big-city amenities are more likely to steer towards Charlotte. Economically, we would be more competitive on paper if we had a more comprehensive transit system.
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Originally Posted by geoffncsu85
Its funny to see so many posts mention Charlotte and NYC in the same sentence, as if they are the least bit comparable. I currently work in NYC and have been to Charlotte many times (I used to live in Shelby, two counties west of Charlotte). Having said that I agree that a light rail is completely impractical for Raleigh. While I would much prefer to get rid of my car and take a train to RDU at 4 am every Monday morning, I don't believe this would be a beneficial use of tax dollars for a majority of Raleigh residents.
Considering how much I just paid to park at the airport, and how much time I spent waiting in traffic on the bus from Raleigh to Chapel Hill while I was a student at NC State, I'm inclined to disagree. The colleges would benefit immediately, the downtown areas and RTP would benefit immediately, and that hits a very large number of people in one fell swoop. The initial rail line in Charlotte hits a small percentage of that city's population but again the upgrades to the bus system, and the knowledge that the line will be expanded in the future, have already influenced where people are moving and how they are commuting in that city.
To take your argument a different way: how exactly does 540 reflect a 'beneficial use' of my tax dollars when the people that will end up using it most are ones that don't live here yet, and will end up moving to new subdivisions built along the new highway?
Raleigh is already more liberal than Charlotte, and anywhere else in the state except Chapel Hill, Durham, and Asheville.
Mass transit is not a left/right issue. Some try to turn it into one but remember that many conservative business types in Charlotte supported the rail line. They knew that it was a long-term investment in the city's economic growth. They knew what happened in Maryland and Northern Virginia after DC's rail system was built and they knew that even if the cost per rider was high initially, and even if the train line lacked coverage, that it would cause Charlotte to grow in a more sustainable way and that is clearly happening.
The problem is that in Raleigh, some people are very short-sighted, and they tend to be very loud.
It actually doesn't. I think a strong case could be made that North Raleigh would benefit from a rail line indirectly. The bus system for the city would be remapped to take advantage of the rail network and wait times and station distance in North Raleigh would both be improved. On top of that, whenever you went to North Hills and parked think of all the network benefits you'd have: anywhere in downtown Raleigh or Durham, any of the universities, the airport, the fairgrounds, all without having to face traffic.
This would particularly help out traffic congestion during games between the universities, and during the state fair.
There are other indirect benefits. Raleigh is potentially losing business to Charlotte right now because they have a rail system, and we don't. Companies looking for more big-city amenities are more likely to steer towards Charlotte. Economically, we would be more competitive on paper if we had a more comprehensive transit system.
Considering how much I just paid to park at the airport, and how much time I spent waiting in traffic on the bus from Raleigh to Chapel Hill while I was a student at NC State, I'm inclined to disagree. The colleges would benefit immediately, the downtown areas and RTP would benefit immediately, and that hits a very large number of people in one fell swoop. The initial rail line in Charlotte hits a small percentage of that city's population but again the upgrades to the bus system, and the knowledge that the line will be expanded in the future, have already influenced where people are moving and how they are commuting in that city.
To take your argument a different way: how exactly does 540 reflect a 'beneficial use' of my tax dollars when the people that will end up using it most are ones that don't live here yet, and will end up moving to new subdivisions built along the new highway?
You are so right about 540. At a minimum, stupidly long commutes should be choked off by not building more roads.
A big metro needs rapid transit to continue its progress.
Raleigh receives $10M grant to finish Union Station from the U.S. Department of Transportation’s 2013 Transportation Investment Generating Economic Recovery (TIGER) Discretionary Grants Program
Whether we have trains or not there will always be a need to maintain the highways. The trucks that deliver groceries need a highway etc My question is how is there gonna be money for both?
No, the $10M is not the final piece of funding. This morning's N&O story makes it clear that the project is still $20M short. And that doesn't include the parking garage.
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Originally Posted by Vatnos
I think a strong case could be made that North Raleigh would benefit from a rail line indirectly. The bus system for the city would be remapped to take advantage of the rail network and wait times and station distance in North Raleigh would both be improved. On top of that, whenever you went to North Hills and parked think of all the network benefits you'd have: anywhere in downtown Raleigh or Durham, any of the universities, the airport, the fairgrounds, all without having to face traffic. This would particularly help out traffic congestion during games between the universities, and during the state fair.
So from North Hills, I'm supposed to take a bus due east to somewhere along the CSX WF corridor and then take a train into downtown. That's an improvement? Don't think so. And if the starting point is the intersection of Strickland and Six Forks or the intersection of Creedmoor and Millbrook, the availability of a train along the CSX corridor is almost totally useless.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vatnos
Raleigh is potentially losing business to Charlotte right now because they have a rail system, and we don't. Companies looking for more big-city amenities are more likely to steer towards Charlotte. Economically, we would be more competitive on paper if we had a more comprehensive transit system.
Speculation. Fidelity has grown to circa 3000 people in RTP over the last 10 years. Deutsche Bank and MetLife are adding circa 2000 people in Cary. (Mass transit was not a factor in these decisions.) Meanwhile Charlotte has flatlined and frankly is struggling to find jobs for the people being cut loose by BofA and Wells Fargo.
Charlottes rail is cool but it is very limited and does not go from where most people live to where many of them work. Kind of like it will be here. Now as years go by it will expand and things will cluster around it but I seriously doubt the rail system in CLT has much to do with economic development. Now, CLT's overall business friendly attitude and fewer NIMBYs that are against growth on the other hand...
Charlottes rail is cool but it is very limited and does not go from where most people live to where many of them work. Kind of like it will be here. Now as years go by it will expand and things will cluster around it but I seriously doubt the rail system in CLT has much to do with economic development. Now, CLT's overall business friendly attitude and fewer NIMBYs that are against growth on the other hand...
DC Metro grew up over the years and property near Metrorail stations went up well.
DC Metro grew up over the years and property near Metrorail stations went up well.
Exactly. And who do you think the primary advocates of mass transit in Raleigh are? Real estate developers and business interests along the proposed route. It's a windfall for them. Or looking at it another way, it's a massive wealth transfer from taxpayers in Wake County to real estate developers and business interests. I'm not saying that a public purpose is not also served, but let's be honest about who wins if light rail comes to the Triangle.
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