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Raleigh and the surrounding area get its power from nukes so no pollution goes into the atmosphere. A moot point.
Not true for the entire Triangle. Per UNC's website:
Quote:
Currently, residents of Chapel Hill who are “on the grid” get their power by buying it from Duke Power Company, where approximately 48% of the energy is derived from nuclear power. The rest originates in coal-fired power plants. Based on data obtained from Duke Power, their plant delivers 30% of their electricity generated to Chapel Hill. Based on annual data from 2002, 2003, and 2004, an average of 30,504,880 KWH end up on the grid within Chapel Hill's borders annually. An efficiency of 30% accompanies the energy derived from coal at Duke Power. The University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill obtains 60% of its energy from the Duke Power grid, and the other 40% from its UNC Cogeneration facility. This facility utilizes the byproduct steam created from the production of their electricity in a manner that allows them to generate even more electricity. The excess steam is used to power turbines, effectually creating extra electricity from the byproduct of the original electricity. UNC's Cogen facility operates at approximately 60% efficiency, since less coal actually produces more energy.
In case it's not clear from that quote, UNC's own cogeneration facility is itself coal-powered.
Also, if they are pretty sure they can show a $0 cost to taxpayer (or even better) and its been reviewed and they stay within budget I don't see how this isn't a good thing.
420 homes @ $100/month in electric cost = $15 mil in revenue over the 30 years (and that assumes electric rates don't go up, which chances are they will be 2x-3x what they are now). Minus wear and tear and mx costs (not sure what those will run), plus it might employ people here in Raleigh and not in another area of the state.
First off, they describe power in terms of number of houses so that simpletons who have no idea what a kilowatt hour is can comprehend the size of a project.
The proposed project will install turbines to capture the power from a portion of the water that goes through the dam already. Typically 60-100 cfs during the summer, and 200-600 cfs the rest of the year. Based on the average stream flow, the project will generate and average of 4600 megawatt/hours of electricity per year. Our house uses an average of around 900 kilowatt/h of electricity per month, or around 11 megawatt/h of electricity per year, so the project would provide enough energy to supply about 420 houses that use the same amount of power we do.
Note that the project will sell power into the grid, so there is a constant return on investment. If nothing changes (namely, the wholesale price of electricity stays the same for the next 30 years), the cost of the project along with mainainence is projected to lose $700,000. If the price of electricity goes up, the project will break even or make money. And if we as a society ever pull our collective head out of our arses and begin afixing a cost to energy sources that dump pollution into the atmosphere, then the project will be quite profitable.
Thanks to CHtransplant for posting the project details.
It's a feasibility study. No design work has even been done. They haven't even selected a single concept (although based on the two NPV's, I think that narrows it down). At this point in the ballgame, a cost estimate for a major capital project with this level of maturity (or lack thereof) is probably in the range of +/- 40%. That would cause a pretty wide swing in the NPV.
Another aspect to look at is that this isn't a "return" project for the city, it's an enivronmentally driven project. Meaning that I can fund a large capital project for the purposes of getting a big return, or I can fund a project that will meet environmental considerations in spite of receiving a negative financial return. In that regard, is it worth -$700k to have a small source of clean electricity? I think different people will respond differently. I personally might say yes, depending on the "sustainable development" aspect: how will the downstream Neuse be effected, local wildlife/traffic/neighborhood impact, etc. I would be interested in the impact on all the stakeholders involved, not just from a city financial perspective.
In the interest of disclosure, I work in the oil industry. The solution to the energy problem is not to turn our back or ignore any alternative. The solution is going to be a combination of oil, natural gas, coal, nuclear, renewables (solar, wind, geothermal, hydroelectric), and perhaps some technology we haven't developed yet. No single source can provide the solution. Green advocates need to stop knocking oil/gas, and oil/gas advocates should stop knocking on green alternatives.
Last edited by Green Irish Eyes; 09-23-2011 at 12:58 PM..
Reason: Edited quoted text
420 homes @ $100/month in electric cost = $15 mil in revenue over the 30 years (and that assumes electric rates don't go up, which chances are they will be 2x-3x what they are now). Minus wear and tear and mx costs (not sure what those will run), plus it might employ people here in Raleigh and not in another area of the state.
I don't mean to burst your bubble, but your back-of-the-napkin calculation is too simplified. The feasibility study that determined NPV of -$700,000 takes 50 years of future revenues into consideration at only a 4.7% discount rate (and still determined a net present value of -$700,000). They also used Progress Energy forecasts for future energy prices, so they didn't use a flat rate for the next 50 years.
I don't mean to burst your bubble, but your back-of-the-napkin calculation is too simplified. The feasibility study that determined NPV of -$700,000 takes 50 years of future revenues into consideration at only a 4.7% discount rate (and still determined a net present value of -$700,000). They also used Progress Energy forecasts for future energy prices, so they didn't use a flat rate for the next 50 years.
OK so then what the other poster wrote was incorrect then. I didn't read anything except what was posted on here.
"A study by the city found that such a project, costing $5 million to $7 million, is feasible under certain economic conditions."
"Electricity generated from the dam would be enough to power several hundred houses, Meeker said."
Really?
Stop spending the money!!!!! Stop it. This Green garbage has got to stop. Come back to reality. Please. Enough with the nonsense.
Don't worry.Raleigh will be eyeballing it forever.The chances of that getting done are small.Through it on the to do list along with the lightrail,and moore square.
Not true for the entire Triangle. Per UNC's website:
In case it's not clear from that quote, UNC's own cogeneration facility is itself coal-powered.
Since it is Raleigh, it is more likely Progress Energy. Their web site notes
"In 2009, our energy mix (what we actually produced) came 41 percent from coal, 35 percent from nuclear, 24 percent from gas and oil, and 1 percent from our hydro-electric plants. We also purchased about 1.25 million megawatt-hours of renewable energy from local producers in our service territory."
The key factor for utilities is when they have to purchase additional power on the open market, usually at a much higher rate than it costs them to generate it.
Since it is Raleigh, it is more likely Progress Energy. Their web site notes
"In 2009, our energy mix (what we actually produced) came 41 percent from coal, 35 percent from nuclear, 24 percent from gas and oil, and 1 percent from our hydro-electric plants. We also purchased about 1.25 million megawatt-hours of renewable energy from local producers in our service territory."
The key factor for utilities is when they have to purchase additional power on the open market, usually at a much higher rate than it costs them to generate it.
Keep in mind Progress serves in many different states.
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