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Interesting how so much of the discussion revolves around data reporting and how to best capture and package it. Aghhh yes the eternal NCLB problem data capture! We all know what a good photograper can do to capture a picture the way we want it to be seen. Such is the same with education data collected by those being judged/evaluated. Now what did SAS say when they gave their third party objective review a couple of years ago? Perhaps they were not being objective but then again perhaps they were!
You are repeating again the comment on diverse schools performing better than high poverty schools. Can you not see how this is what people are saying to you about schools instead of students? What difference does it make if the schools average out better if the struggling students just gets lost in the shuffling? It's not the school average people are concerned with. It's the student's own improvement that matters.
You keep repeating people are in favor of high poverty schools. Do you really believe that is what people are in favor of? Do you think that is their goal or is that how you are choosing to interpret it to make your point? How do you know they are not in favor of no poverty whatsoever?
Correct me if I'm wrong but I don't think busing for socioeconomic diversity has been around for 40 years. I believe it was busing for something different for the first 30 years and then changed to busing for socioeconomic diversity for the last 10 years. Either the students grades and graduation rates went up or down over the 10 years. We know the graduation rates went down for students in poverty. Do you have any evidence the grades went up for students in poverty in the WCPSS? Referencing articles based in theory not using data from the WCPSS does not make the case for what did or did not happen in the WCPSS. You need to provide proof the students in poverty are doing better individually. On the surface it appears busing is not helping students in poverty to improve because the data shows fewer of them are graduating. Based on that wouldn't you think it's time to try something different?
that's not what the data says. The data says poor kinds perfrom worse if concentrated with poor kids. You started that whole arguemnt on an incorrect premise.
Also, since you are aware taht bussing started 40 years ago and not 10, is it not obvious that changing the basis made little difference? The real results were the same under racila and income bases, so there is no before and after 10 years ago.
"The best way to improve school test scores is to bus some smart kids in"
" Is it better to have 20 failing schools by marginal numbers or 10 failing by convincing numbers"
" Is it easier to concentrate remedial resources in a limited number of schools or spread them out over a number of schools"
" How many really care about low performing students if their children and friends are performing well in comfortable settings"
" What bang for the buck are we getting from the education spending splurge of the 90's"
" Which plan is the most sustainable moving forward considering the revenue headwinds a blowing"
seems to me it's much easier to deal with kids that need remedial help if they're not all concentrated in low income schools, given the other ramifications
As I've said I'd be pleaed though if the prior board had committed to KIPP type resources for all applicable kids. But they didn't. They made a plan to create a huge problem and no plan to deal with them, and frankly most of their supporters don't care since their kids won't have a problem.
How much have you heard here about solutions? bupkis
seems to me it's much easier to deal with kids that need remedial help if they're not all concentrated in low income schools, given the other ramifications
As I've said I'd be pleaed though if the prior board had committed to KIPP type resources for all applicable kids. But they didn't. They made a plan to create a huge problem and no plan to deal with them, and frankly most of their supporters don't care since their kids won't have a problem.
How much have you heard here about solutions? bupkis
In an ideal world it would be easier to deal with kids needing remediation in non concentrated numbers. However I would also suggest that bad behavior is a dominant characteristic and good behavior isn't. Negative behavior is more likely to bring other students down than good behavior is likely to elevate poorly functioning kids. Especially in the African American community. All you need is to bring in a few aggressive thugs telling the high performing brothers that they are acting White and you have downward moving test scores. Yup negative peer pressure usually dominates over positive peer pressure. Real world application of educational models is difficult and replicating what has once worked is also difficult. One of the first things you have to do when evaluating school success stories to to find out if there were any student population changes etc etc.
In an ideal world it would be easier to deal with kids needing remediation in non concentrated numbers. However I would also suggest that bad behavior is a dominant characteristic and good behavior isn't. Negative behavior is more likely to bring other students down than good behavior is likely to elevate poorly functioning kids. Especially in the African American community. All you need is to bring in a few aggressive thugs telling the high performing brothers that they are acting White and you have downward moving test scores. Yup negative peer pressure usually dominates over positive peer pressure. Real world application of educational models is difficult and replicating what has once worked is also difficult. One of the first things you have to do when evaluating school success stories to to find out if there were any student population changes etc etc.
I think there's a big difference between bad performance and bad behavior, and teh Two don;t necessarily go hand in hand, not are they limited by race or income. Not sure if that's what you're suggesting but it sort of sounds like it and it would surprise me if you were.
I would agree with you on bad behavior and respond that it can be dealt with with discipline and separation. Bad performance can be grouped such that better students are not impeded.
A problem I want? No one wants low-performing schools, but you can't identify them if you make every school average by busing kids around. And yes, if you are so concerned about low-income schools becoming problems under the new system (which may or may not happen) then get out there and donate your time and effort. I would think you would want to improve a system (busing for diversity) that is currently failing the low-income students.
You cannot enforce equal outcomes, only equal opportunity. The rest is up to the students and parents.
@CHTransplant, fair enough.
Ohhh, netbrad, of course we can identify low-performing schools regardless of where the kids live and/or are bused from. Do you know anything about the amount of data gathered in schools? NC is about 10 minutes away from data-tracking every single INDIVIDUAL student's achievement. Which means: when they take a standardized test, teachers don't get feedback on how the whole grade level did on a particular test. They get feedback on exactly which question each student got wrong, so they can A) reteach and B) improve instruction next time.
Do you really think teachers are just throwing jello at the wall and hoping it sticks? And do you really think teachers want amateur volunteers coming in off the street to help them educate? What they want is educated professionals to be hired to come in and do the work of professionals. Yet the cuts keep happening.
As for enforcing equal outcomes/providing equal opportunities, Pshaw...we already know that some kids need more opportunities than others.
Of course they can identify them. All they need are grades, test results and an address.
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