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It is premature to write off Northside. I very much hope I'm wrong, and that Northside becomes a great school. I visited the building site yesterday, and the grounds look great. However, the population data does not look good. They only lowered poverty from 40% to 30% by bussing in 74A, and if 74A is anything like 157, these kids will bail at the first hint of school failure. If the school board had any sense, they'd lower the at-risk population as much as possible, which they could do by reverting from 2.1r back to 2.1, and also by leaving segments 82 and 83 at Carrboro, and bussing in some more middle class neighborhoods to take their place. That might work, though the stupid bussing situation would be even worse. We all hate bussing over long distances, but if the school is good, most parents will live with it. As it is, I predict the actual poverty rate will remain 40%. Even the best teachers have difficulty teaching in that environment. It will be interesting to see if Meadowmont parents bail after their poverty rate increases from 13% to 32%. They're getting a whole bunch of impoverished Hispanic kids FPG failed to educate properly. When one in three kids has issues at home like not enough decent food to eat and wondering if Mom will make the rent this month, or if Dad will be deported, there's not much you can do to succeed with a class.
I used to feel pretty bad about my 15 minute drive to Woods Chartered. Now, I'm feeling pretty good. It's a quicker and a much safer drive than Northside. Why would anyone consider switching back? There are more kids trying to get into Woods Chartered then there are kids in Woods Chartered. If parents decided to replicate Woods Chartered's success with a new charter school, they'll fill it up the first year.
My first hint that FPG would not work for our family was the tragic waste of my son's kindergarten year. I support public schools, teacher's unions (which are crippled by law here), and the Chapel Hill school taxes. I gave FPG a chance and tried to make it work. However, only a parent without the means would leave their kid in a school that is failing to educate them. I know of not one single kid in 157 who will attend Northside, though I don't know everyone.
So, CHTranslpant, what would you have done in my place? Let your kids grow up without a decent education, or switch to Woods Chartered? Let's both hope I'm wrong about Northside, but it's criminally incompetent to be in this position. The school board has really let us down.
So, CHTranslpant, what would you have done in my place? Let your kids grow up without a decent education, or switch to Woods Chartered? Let's both hope I'm wrong about Northside, but it's criminally incompetent to be in this position. The school board has really let us down.
I would do what any parent should do - which is determine the right school for my child.
I'm not a huge fan of the "great school" / "bad school" labels, and the belief that the school alone somehow determines how an individual student will perform. Chapel Hill schools get a lot of acclaim, for example, for producing high achieving students. That may be true - but what's debatable is how much of that achievement is due to parenting, background, resources, etc., such that any given child might have achieved the same level of performance at almost any school. What it certainly doesn't answer, though, is how any given school will impact any individual student. Some students can do well at a variety of schools. Some may need an environment/programs that are more closely tailored to that individual student's needs.
I'm sorry your child's elementary school did not meet the child's needs. I can definitely identify with that somewhat, as there have been years when I had a child who struggled with a particular teacher when there just wasn't a good match. It's frustrating.
I'm not a huge fan of the "great school" / "bad school" labels, and the belief that the school alone somehow determines how an individual student will perform.
I'll try to drop the labels then, but feel free to call me on it. My daughter was originally at Scroggs, and I experienced one year where the teacher was a poor fit for her. I get that. I even known a parent who had to pull his kid out of Scroggs over this issue. At least back then, the administration had a policy of zero flexibility, and it was impossible to move your kid to another class. However, overall I had little to complain about at Scroggs other than overcrowding.
I certainly don't believe the school is the driving factor in individual student performance. While I've seen some poor teachers, most are quite good at their job. Even at FPG, the kids who are native English speakers and not listed as "reduced/free lunch" do well compared to state averages. I think the main reason FPGA is closing it's traditional program is that it's failing to help the at-risk kids, which shows up on EOG scores, and caused FPG to face federal sanctions from No Child Left Behind. I had heard that things were better at FPG lately, with creative programs like merging grades so there would be enough students to offer differentiated learning.
Back in 2008, I looked into the data seriously. The school board made all of the data public. Scroggs was over croweded, and our neighborhood had to move. The question was where. It was informative to compare test scores at different schools by race/ethnicity, and then buy the reduced lunch numbers. What I found was that there are black neighborhoods in north Chapel Hill where the kids do almost as well as the white kids, while the black neighborhoods south of Main St in Carrboro (segments 82 and 83, IIRC) were mostly failing to pass grade level reading and math. So, I pounded some pavement and knocked on doors in these neighborhoods and talked to parents. What I found was good people generally everywhere, but the homes in Carrboro were run down, and I think mostly rentals. They had a majority listed as free/reduced lunch. There were drug dealers present. The level of poverty in maybe half the homes was depressing, though a lot were in good condition. A lot of people were missing teeth, and many were either overweight or underfed. In comparison, the north Chapel Hill black neighborhood with good scores were modest lower-middle class homes that mostly seemed owned, rather than rented, and everyone had a car that looked like it could go for a few miles without dying. They're free/reduced lunch numbers were not much higher than the better off neighborhoods. Also, I found that the poorest white kids had poor test scores. I concluded from this that regardless of race and culture, we all care about education, but bare necessities come first. As soon as you feel secure about your home, can feed your family properly, get decent doctor and dental care for everyone, and maybe have reliable transporation, the next priority is educating your kids. The gap between the impoverished black neighborhood and the lower middle class one was huge, and accounted for something like 90% of the achievement gap.
I don't think the teachers will succeed in properly educating a lot of the poorest kids. The most desperate situations seemed to be in some of the apartment complexes which house mostly illegal immigrants. I tried but failed to talk to a single Hispanic parent in any of these apartment complexes. When I'd knock on the door, the Spanish radio station would go silent, the kids would stop making noise, and the lights would be turned off. I assume this is what they do to avoid ICE, but I'm pretty ignorant on this topic. At FPG, not a single Hispanic parent of a kid in my son's class ever showed up that I recall, not on the first day of school, not at PTA meetings, not ever. There were some Burmese kids in my son's class, and at least their parents showed up, though they sat in silence and basically couldn't communicate at all. These poor kids are now being bussed to Raskis. I hope they will have the resources to do a better job with these kids than FPG did. They need special attention.
I realize we're only about a month into school, but I'm curious to hear how things are going at Northside with the new opening and FPG with a completely new focus. Anyone with students there care to comment?
For us, after the redistricting went the way it did (see my prior posts in the thread), we ended up appealing to the district formally to be re-assigned to a school much closer than Northside. As you might expect, especially in a re-districting year, our appeal was denied in spite of its merits. Thus, our son would be subjected to the 45 minute+ bus rides going to Northside with an expected pick-up time around 6:55 in the morning.
Lucky for us, we became aware of a charter Montessori school opening 5 minutes away in north Chatham county. We applied and were fortunate enough to get in. The school thus far has been a dream. Perhaps it's just the honeymoon period, but there are some fundamental differences that have made it wonderful for our family.
If our son attended Northside, I would have to get him at 6:20 to rush and get him out the door by 6:50 for the bus. The mornings would be like they were for FPG - all business and some anxiety. Then, he would go to school and the after school program. Since Northside is downtown, it would take us at least 20 minutes to get there to pick him up if we could go before rush hour started. Leaving work at 5 we would be lucky to be home by 6 or 6:30. Essentially a 12 hour day for our son.
Instead, Willow Oak starts school at 8:30. This means he wakes up on his own around 7:15. By then, I've already gone on a morning jog (seeing lots of sleepy kids) and started breakfast. He packs up his lunch, and we eat a normally paced breakfast, then sometimes we go on a family walk before hopping in the car for a 10 minute drive to school. For after school, it's a small program with only about 10 kids so he has a great time in a relatively relaxed setting. Because the school is so close, it's easy to pick him up before 5 so he can have some down time at home before dinner. Then, he can pack his lunch and snack for the next day while we make a family dinner and still have some family time after. It's crazy how low key our family has become compared to the frenetic pace we faced in prior years. It's been life changing. Yes, we have to provide the food and the transportation, but that's turned out to be so much easier than dealing with the distance and the buses. Plus, my son has learned responsibility in making and taking his own foods.
If the board had simply listened to the citizen majorities or allowed our appeal, our son would probably be just fine going to the neighborhood school close by AND our tax dollars would have stayed in the city. Instead, those dollars and our son have exited Chapel Hill schools for Chatham county, and we couldn't be happier. He'll return to Chapel Hill schools after 8th grade to attend Carrboro High if the board hasn't redistricted him a few more times by then.
We are of course an N of 1, but I can't help but think the district probably lost a lot of good students through its poor handling of the re-districting process to other charter and private schools. As election time approaches for the school board, please pay attention to the candidates and their platforms especially as they relate to re-districting. They can ignore your opinions, but they can't ignore your votes!
I have heard great things about Willow Oak. I have a friend in Chatham Co who has been very active with getting the school up and running.
I have also heard great things about Northside. We were not redistricted, but thought we might be and were fine with that. It's a beautiful building and from what I've heard things are going great there. I also have friends at FPG and they have been happy with the changes there as well.
We're fortunate to live in an area where we have so many good educational choices.
I don't have elementary age kids, but so far the comments I hear from parents in the neighborhood who now have kids at Northside have been positive. There's a lot of enthusiasm for the new school, even if it wasn't the assignment that was preferred.
Location: Chapel Hill, NC, formerly NoVA and Phila
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We have friends who got redistricted to Northside. I think it's too early to tell how things will play out academically, but most people seem enthused about the facility and staff, at least. I have heard about the 6:50 pickup time for some kids, and that just stinks. I don't even like the early start time of the CH elementary school without the earlier bus pickup factor. We moved from a district that started elementary later, and for us, we preferred it, but we tend to be night owls in our house. I also don't like that they are done at 2:30 PM and you really need to search for activities to do after school, otherwise it is a long afternoon. I would love an 8:30-3:10 school day! But of course that has nothing to do with the redistricting. Although, perhaps they should have accounted for such an early start to the day when deciding on who went there. We weren't affected by the redistricting.
As for FPG, again, I think it's too early to tell how it will play out. We were given the opportunity for my youngest to do Spanish there. I know they were trying hard to fill up those classrooms, because even when we declined the spot in June, we got a call in late August asking us again. One of my concerns was that the program as a full school magnet program doesn't have a track record, and, along with other reasons, I was hesitant to take a chance. One aspect that I was concerned about is the variance in income levels between the native Spanish-speaking students and the English speaking ones. They come from very different backgrounds, education-wise, and I think there is going to be a huge difference in academic capabilities in the classroom. There was an article recently in the local CH paper that said, there is an estimated 40-50% of students there with Free and Reduced lunch.
After talking to some educators about immersion programs in general, I came away with the impression that they are done for the benefit of the non-English speaking students more than for the English speaking ones. Along with having to get up earlier, having my kids in 3 different schools, and my son not wanting to go there, we ultimately decided to stay at our base school. But, I will be interested in hearing how everyone feels about the school and the program towards the end of the year.
Michgc, my younger daughter is at Carrboro Elementary which also has a Spanish dual language program and a F&RL rate of about that. The issues you are talking about are not a big problem at our school as far as I know (my daughter is not doing dual language, but I have several friends whose children are in the program and their parents are very happy with it). Our former principal, Dr Bivins, is the new principal at FPG and she is very committed to the Spanish dual language program and I am sure she will do a great job there. I think your concerns are largely unfounded.
Location: Chapel Hill, NC, formerly NoVA and Phila
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Quote:
Originally Posted by poppydog
I think your concerns are largely unfounded.
They might be. As I said, there were a few reasons we decided not to send my son there, and my concerns about the academic vigor was just one of them. In the future we might regret not sending him. But for now, we are happy with our decision. I am interested to see how it plays out at FPG. I know quite a few people who have their children there, so we will see.
I really don't foresee any issues. Dr Bivins is very capable.
We don't have our kids in dual language, either. Our older daughter had a really tough adjustment to the idea of school in general (lots of separation anxiety) and speaking another language was just not in the cards at that time for her. Our younger daughter would have done all right, but we already had our older daughter in a small private school for early elementary so opted to send the younger daughter there, too. We moved them to CHCCS in 2nd and 5th grades so they were too old to start the dual language program then. I don't know anyone in it who has been disappointed, though.
I just don't think the transition to FPG being a full magnet program is going to have much impact on the quality of the program at all unless it is to improve it. The program was successful before as a partial magnet at FPG and CES and it's under strong leadership with Dr Bivins at FPG so I don't know why it wouldn't continue to be more of the same.
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