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Thanks. There's more. If you live way out from the city center because you wanted lower housing costs and /or maximum size of a home and land, it's hard for me to swallow complaints about the lack of public transportation. Public transit is only effective when people live in a manner that makes it possible. This means that we need to prioritize how we live if we want things that we don't already have. And, assuming that public transport comes to some areas and not others, again, don't complain if you chose to live somewhere that isn't going to make sense for the public to invest in mass transit.
One final rant, if you have kids or had kids that go/went to public schools in Wake County, no complaining about paying for schools for them. Wake County already has a much more cost effective system than comparably populated places up North that would have dozens of smaller systems with their own bureaucracies.
That all said, I don't have kids. by my choice, I pay high property taxes because I live in a DT condo that has a value in excess of the average home in Wake County. My condo didn't require an extension of the roads' system, the public utilities, police routes, etc. yet I don't complain about paying my taxes that are paying to expand our infrastructure in Raleigh/Wake County including schools. I even pay an overlay property tax so that EVERYONE who comes to DT can enjoy things like the free RLine bus and DT ambassadors. I'd suggest that everyone takes the long view about what makes sense for our community going forward. In the end, the more we can build our tax base faster than we build our infrastructure, the better it is for everyone. For those who enjoy their edge of town/suburban/rural lifestyle, consider actively encouraging and supporting DT development (and the politicians who do so) that will generate the revenue necessary for ongoing support of the entire city/county while minimizing the affects on you. The way I see it, it's a win-win. Many people are willing to pay more for the convenience and atmosphere of DT and the urbanites get the life they want while they help subsidize infrastructure throughout Wake. Everyone gets to enjoy the expanding city amenities, whether once a year/month/week or everyday.
I know that I dragged this response way beyond the schools issue but it is all related IMHO.
We never had kids. We will be voting for the bonds.
As a sane person should. Having an educated workforce begins with having educated children. Even if I never have kids, having other children educated will benefit me, and the state. I can't believe someone would actually say this. OP is something else.
At the end of the day, market forces decide whether sprawl continues or not. Most pro-transit people live inside the Raleigh city limits and exercise little control over what happens outside the Raleigh city limits because the percentage of Wake County that lives inside the Raleigh city limits has been falling for decades and continues to, despite Raleigh's annexations. If people want to buy homes inside the city limits, they will -- and developers will be more than happy to accommodate them, building vertically if necessary. If people eschew the city (even with mass transit) and want new suburbs in what used to be farmland, developers will be more than happy to accommodate that too. There is little or no political will at the county level to stop sprawl. And there certainly is no such will in Harnett, Glanville, Franklin, Cabarrus, or most importantly Johnston.
The main reason Wake County has had trouble with getting students into local/neighborhood schools is that there are too many students for too few schools, and over the past years there has not been enough money set aside to build them.
Wake county adds 1000 new residents per week. How many of those are students? I don't know the figures, but even at 10% that would mean 5000 new students per year. They need schools. School bonds are the way to raise money for them. Our concern should be that there is accountability for how that money is spent, but voting to pass a school bond should not be the issue. It is obvious the county needs it.
Location: Chapel Hill, NC, formerly NoVA and Phila
9,781 posts, read 15,804,357 times
Reputation: 10894
Quote:
Originally Posted by saturnfan
Without good rail transit, we are stupid to facilitate sprawl by helping people commute from more outlying areas to Wake County.
Yes, Wake is attractive, NOW. Will we need to turn it into an overpriced mess like the NYC and DC metro areas before we wake up?
SOME growth is good. Too much turns an area into the type of garbage hole many transplants came here to escape.
Where are we headng out of greed? To a crime-riden, overpriced trash heap with outrageous prices, taxes and congestion?
We must discourage more expansion by not building more schools or roads. Let some other area be choked and taxed to death.
Having just moved here from the DC area, I disagree that not building roads or schools will discourage people from moving here. The powers that be in the DC area did not anticipate the level of growth that would occur there over the past 50 years, and the roads/trains/buses just cannot handle the amount of population that there is. It has not discouraged people from moving there (or if it has, there is someone else who is willing to move there in their place). People commute 15 miles in 45 minutes on the highway or 30 milies in 1 1/2 hours. Rush hour is 3-4 hours long every morning and every evening. Schools are overcrowded - with 25 to 30 kids in a classroom being the norm.
Having just moved here from the DC area, I disagree that not building roads or schools will discourage people from moving here. The powers that be in the DC area did not anticipate the level of growth that would occur there over the past 50 years, and the roads/trains/buses just cannot handle the amount of population that there is. It has not discouraged people from moving there (or if it has, there is someone else who is willing to move there in their place). People commute 15 miles in 45 minutes on the highway or 30 milies in 1 1/2 hours. Rush hour is 3-4 hours long every morning and every evening. Schools are overcrowded - with 25 to 30 kids in a classroom being the norm.
If you don't build it, they will (still) come.
There is one big difference involving DC.
The jobs in DC pay very well and that attracts people despite the area's issues.
NC pay can be much lower than other areas, so the jobs are not the lure they are in DC.
When I worked in Exxon-Mobil NYC HQ (1970's - 1980's), many people offered promotions declined the move because of the NY metro area. I did fine because we lived in a rent-controlled middle income housing community and walked to work.
Since NC doesn't have a great pay scale in many fields, it's not that likely more transplants would come if Wake became an overcrowded, crime-ridden, overpriced pile of junk.
Location: Chapel Hill, NC, formerly NoVA and Phila
9,781 posts, read 15,804,357 times
Reputation: 10894
Quote:
Originally Posted by saturnfan
There is one big difference involving DC.
The jobs in DC pay very well and that attracts people despite the area's issues.
NC pay can be much lower than other areas, so the jobs are not the lure they are in DC.
When I worked in Exxon-Mobil NYC HQ (1970's - 1980's), many people offered promotions declined the move because of the NY metro area. I did fine because we lived in a rent-controlled middle income housing community and walked to work.
Since NC doesn't have a great pay scale in many fields, it's not that likely more transplants would come if Wake became an overcrowded, crime-ridden, overpriced pile of junk.
I agree that the Triangle does not have the economy that DC has, but it does have other qualities that people like - such as the weather, good healthcare, and being mid-way between Florida and the Northeast. In addition, where will technology take us in the next 50 years? How many people who move here bring their work with them? There are already many people today who work from home. And overcrowded, crime-ridden, and overpriced is all relative. The housing here will still be newer, cheaper, and less crowded than NYC, regardless of how bad it gets here.
I agree that the Triangle does not have the economy that DC has, but it does have other qualities that people like - such as the weather, good healthcare, and being mid-way between Florida and the Northeast. In addition, where will technology take us in the next 50 years? How many people who move here bring their work with them? There are already many people today who work from home. And overcrowded, crime-ridden, and overpriced is all relative. The housing here will still be newer, cheaper, and less crowded than NYC, regardless of how bad it gets here.
Actually, NYC older housing is many times better built than our cheaply constructed flimsy wooden housing.
Most multi-family housing in NYC is fireproof and built to last. Ours has a good life of max 20 years.
Much Triangle housing will deteriorate to slum quality in the next 10-15 years beause of inferior materials and workmanship supported by lax building and fire codes.
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