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Old 05-09-2013, 08:30 PM
 
51,584 posts, read 25,511,617 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lamishra View Post
the high povery kids still may not have parents who can or will buy them a tri-fold baord, however the PTA at that school collects and distributes funds to make sure every child at the school has the resources they need. When the science teacher tells them their project needs to be on a tri-fold board and a student can't afford one, the science teacher usually has several available to give out, thanks to parents who care about the success of the school overall as well as volunteering their time and money to the PTA.
So in Wake County, the PTA steps in and supplies the materials that a low-income family is unable to provide?

That's remarkable. And to be commended.

Do these volunteer parents work with the students to develop and write up their projects as well? If so, I'm really impressed.

This being the case, I suspect that statistical analysis verifies improved academic outcomes for low-income students bussed to middle-income schools. Correct?

The schools that I've read and heard about that are successful are the ones with passionate teachers and inspired administrators who challenge and engage the students, provide after school academic assistance, who have high expectations for their students and provide the support they need to achieve this, who bend over backwards to engage their parents and appreciate and recognize their culture.

There are many, many low-income parents who want their kids to succeed in school and would love to help them if they had some support in doing that. But how does a parent who is barely scraping by get involved in her/his children's education when you make attending parent-teacher conferences a cross town challenge? It's one thing to get involved in a PTA fundraiser to improve the playground. Quite another when the fundraiser is to raise money for school supplies for the "poor kids."

We've been bussing kids for some time now. We need to look at the numbers and ask ourselves if it's working.

If it does, good deal.

If not, then we need a different approach.

We're wasting lives here.
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Old 05-09-2013, 08:35 PM
 
875 posts, read 1,157,047 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lamishra View Post
It's not learning by osmosis, but it's learning by example in a school with a diverse mix of students and academic backgrounds and being exposed to an academic standard that their parents either don't or can't necesarily understand or support.
If the parents don't support or understand the expected standard, the student is going to fail no matter which school they're in so diversity busing is a waste of time. The focus should be on academic achievement no matter what school a student is in.

For the year the busing was not in place and the evil Republican board ran things, we had some gains in academic achievement:

Wake County schools see steady academic gains :: WRAL.com

From the article:

Students increased proficiency at every grade level and in every subject tested, except for seventh-grade math. Third-grade students showed the most improvement, gaining 2.4 percentage points in math and 2.2 percentage points in reading. Proficiency rates for Algebra I, biology and English end-of-course tests also increased.
The greatest gains, Wake schools Superintendent Tony Tata said, were with economically disadvantaged students.
"We grew at all ends of the spectrum – the middle, the top and the economically disadvantaged," he said. "It really tells us that our focus on differentiation and closing gaps is working."

But diversity is more important than academic achievement, so let's fire Tony Tata once the Democrats regain control. Oh, don't forget they promised not to make changes, retook the majority and started making major changes. Any board member that prioritizes diversity over academic achievement should resign immediately.
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Old 05-09-2013, 08:50 PM
 
Location: Cary, NC
8,269 posts, read 25,031,777 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GotHereQuickAsICould View Post

Do these volunteer parents work with the students to develop and write up their projects as well?
Occassionally yes, but mostly their TEACHERS do this. Seems obvious?
The example given was about access to tri-fold boards. This actually just happened in our "diverse" school. I saw a couple (like 2?) science fair projects on ripped up shoe boxes/cardboard. I asked the science teacher if he needed any tri-fold boards donated and he said that the had enough from the PTA and all students were made aware they were available. These 2 particular students chose not to ask for one (and I know nothing about the two students), but they were available to all through PTA funds.
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Old 05-09-2013, 09:14 PM
 
Location: Raleigh NC
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for any who might be interested in the data:

http://www.wcpss.net/about-us/our-st...rts/book12.pdf

the actual demographic info by school starts on page 60
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Old 05-09-2013, 11:49 PM
 
Location: My House
34,935 posts, read 36,074,073 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theS5 View Post
Throwing money at education doesn't work. Schools with apathetic parents will always lag behind those with engaged ones. Putting kids in higher performing schools will not change who the parents are.

Wealthier schools being able to raise more funds for their schools should not be considered when funding schools with public funds.
So, we just let those kids fail?

I hear what you're saying. I just don't think it's useless to try to help kids from impoverished environments.

And you basically proved my point. You can never make all the schools equal.
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Old 05-10-2013, 03:43 AM
 
51,584 posts, read 25,511,617 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BoBromhal View Post
for any who might be interested in the data:

http://www.wcpss.net/about-us/our-st...rts/book12.pdf

the actual demographic info by school starts on page 60
Page 60 had some info on Special/Optional Academies which, according to page 12, 75% of students are enrolled in free and reduced lunch.

But I could find no data on academic improvement for students on free and reduced lunch who were bussed to middle-income schools. Is it somewhere in this report?

If bussing was actually improving academic performance and graduation rates, I can't help but wonder why this information is not being used to justify bringing it back.
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Old 05-10-2013, 04:34 AM
 
51,584 posts, read 25,511,617 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lamishra View Post
Occassionally yes, but mostly their TEACHERS do this. Seems obvious?
And when exactly do the TEACHERS do this? During regular class time when they are supposed to be teaching all of the students?

Surely, middle-income students aren't shortchanged while low-income students get an extra measure of attention to make up for limited parental involvement.

And when do these projects (the growing of beans under various circumstances, etc.) take place? Do TEACHERS stay after school to help them? How does the bussing home work when they stay after school?

I was a "room mother" for most of my children's elementary years and spent countless hours as an unpaid aide assisting with behavior management on field trips, helping students learn to read... For years, I observed what goes on in classrooms day in and day out.

Even the best teachers were not able to provide more than a bare minimum amount of extra attention, and this was at the expense of educating the rest of the students. The worst teachers didn't even try. It was sink or swim.

Many teachers paired up students to provide this extra academic support. Low achieving students were paired up with those that had a handle on the material as Science Partners, etc. I assume this still goes on.

Teachers dumb down the curriculum in order not to leave low performing students behind. In the 7th grade, our son's English class was reading comic books. Comic books! When I asked his teacher why they were not reading regular "chapter books", he told me that many of the kid came from homes that did not have books and did not go to the library, thus did not read well. So in order to not to leave them behind, the whole class read comic books that year. Was it fair to sacrifice the academic progress of the middle-income students to meet the needs of the low-income students?

Perhaps it would if in the great scheme of things the low-income students actually benefited from this. But I can find no data that it does.

A year or so ago, someone posted some rudimentary information comparing drop-out stats and so forth for students who were bussed but could get no other information out of the school district. The poster wrote that the school district said this information was not available. But even this very basic comparison did not show any significant difference with bussing.

If there is a difference, let's see it.

I can't help but wonder why if it made much of a difference we haven't seen it by now.

Last edited by GotHereQuickAsICould; 05-10-2013 at 05:31 AM..
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Old 05-10-2013, 06:15 AM
rfb
 
Location: Raleigh, NC
2,592 posts, read 6,325,370 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lamishra View Post
Glad to see that the vote was basiclaly agreed upon by all but one member. Having all members agree with a preliminary assignment policy will be very helpful moving forward with this.
The vote was along party lines, as they have been for quite some time. Most of the elected Republicans who have left office for one reason or another have been replaced with a Democrat by the Democratic majority, which accounted for the lopsided vote.
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Old 05-10-2013, 06:30 AM
rfb
 
Location: Raleigh, NC
2,592 posts, read 6,325,370 times
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Originally Posted by meh_whatever View Post
Would you say your neighborhood was the exception or the norm?
I live in a different part of North Raleigh, and kids in the neighborhood spend 50 minutes to an 1hr 15 minutes *each way* being bused to a distant school. Is it the norm? I don't know, but no child should be spending that much time on a bus in the name of diversity.
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Old 05-10-2013, 07:18 AM
 
Location: My House
34,935 posts, read 36,074,073 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rfb View Post
I live in a different part of North Raleigh, and kids in the neighborhood spend 50 minutes to an 1hr 15 minutes *each way* being bused to a distant school. Is it the norm? I don't know, but no child should be spending that much time on a bus in the name of diversity.
I disagree with forced busing that takes a kid more than 10-15 miles from home. The amount of time on the bus can vary, according to traffic, number of stops, etc.

When my son was sent to Cary Elementary, we decided to drive him to school and pick him up. It took more than an hour one way due to number of stops plus traffic, yet we could drive him there in 15-20 minutes. That was a no-brainer.

I realize that not everyone can easily carpool their kids, but there ARE ways to keep kids off the bus if the time on it is a concern.
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