Sigh... Durham or Chapel Hill/Carrboro?? (Raleigh, Cary: crime, townhome, safe area)

[IdaClaire]

My husband and I live out in Western Orange County with our 2 year old daughter. While we love the "rustic" lifestyle, there are no children around and we really miss living in a more "neighborhood" setting, with kids and parks and services nearby.

Now, my husband works for Chapel Hill/Carrboro schools, which means we can send our children to Chapel Hill/Carrboro school district, regardless of where we live. If we choose to live outside the district, we pay a small yearly tuition.

We have been planning for some time to eventually move into a family neighborhood in Carrboro so that our daughter can live near the children with whom she'd be attending school and so that my husband could walk, bike or take the bus to work. I work near Downtown Durham, so either one of us will have a commute.

However, I have been getting cold feet about the move into Carrboro. Recently, we got together with some of our "urban pioneer" friends who live in Durham, and I've been wondering if we'd be happier returning back to the Trinity Park/Watts-Hillandale/Morehead Hills/Duke Park/Forest Hills/Lakewood area.

I feel comfortable with limiting ourselves to about 375K max. 375K in Durham can go fairly far, but in Carrboro, decent homes at 375K are elusive. They exist, but you have to snap them right away and you don't end up with much house. I prefer older homes, and Durham has them in spades. I also think that Durham is improving and becoming more desirably urban. I left Durham in 2004, and already, I have noticed so much development and improvements going on downtown. I think it's an exciting time to get in the door now before the gentrification process is complete. Durham and Chapel Hill/Carrboro are both progressive, but Durham has always felt more like a "real" city to me, while Chapel Hill/Carrboro, much as I love them, feel more like a university theme park town. There is much more diversity in Durham, and Chapel Hill/Carrboro are much more homogenous/affluent. I guess I want my daughter to grow up being able to live amongst the full spectrum of socioeconomic groups and not just live around other middle/upper middle class white people who are well-educated.

So, I guess I'm asking for advice from folks with kids who have knowledge of both Durham and Carrboro. Am I crazy to consider raising my daughter in "the city"? She could still ride with her father to Carrboro for school, but if we are to fully participate in our community, we'd send her to school in Durham. Am I crazy to be considering choosing Durham Public Schools over Chapel Hill's? Our friends' children all seem to be thriving academically, well-read, and intellectually curious, as much so as the children I've met in Chapel Hill, so I'm not sure why Durham Public Schools seem to get a bad rap.

Anyway, what would you choose to do if you had our budget and our concerns? I guess I'm having a moving existential crisis...

[coltank]

Durham Schools get a bad rap because they are more diverse without the same pool of students to pull from. Look at test scores across the Triangle, see which schools have the highest scores, then check their diversity and see what neighborhoods the kids are coming from. The schools with the best scores in Cary are all fed from brand new neighborhoods with 400k+ houses. Well to do, intelligent parents breed intelligent children. For the most part anyway.

Your kids are not going to get a worse eduation in Durham, they'll just be surrounded by a few more problem kids. And, if your kids are in gifted and honors classes, they'll have much less exposure to them.

I grew up in Chapel Hill, with plenty of friends in Durham. My High School eduation wasn't any better than theirs.

[dcgrl]

Maybe this will surprise exactly no one, but I'd say Durham. For exactly the reasons you've outlined. $375k will buy you some house in the areas you're talking about, with great neighbors who feel the same way you do. And if you get the perk of sending your kids to CH schools--I think it's kind of a no-brainer... A potential drawback of course is that your kids will be going to school with kids not in their neighborhood, so they might feel a little isolated at school (I'm grasping here--I have no kids, so I don't really know how they'd feel.) On the other hand, it exposes them to more people and they'll have neighborhood friends and school friends...

Your feelings about Chapel Hill/Carrboro reflect my own.

Come to Durham!

ETA: I skipped the part about sending your daughter to Durham schools. I agree with Coltank--you need to be involved in your child's education, and if you exhibit intellectual curiosity and model those behaviors yourself, your child will pick up on them and enjoy learning and will do well in school. Durham also has school choice, so if you're not happy with the neighborhood school, you can petition to send her elsewhere. Although I think the school in the Watts-Hillandale neighborhood is pretty well regarded.

[fester600]

Take this information with a grain of salt as I am a Durham homer, but I would highly recommend Durham 27713.

Check out Creekside Elementary:
DPS District Site - Student Assignment Maps (http://www.dpsnc.net/index.php?option=com_wrapper&Itemid=1119 - broken link)

You can definitely get alot for your money. While I agree Chapel Hill schools are probably better, I probably would consider making the change around high school (and maybe even middle school) from Durham to Chapel Hill.

Personally I would much prefer getting a bigger and better home, a decent sized lot, and a family friendly community with a pool.

Hope this helps!
Matt

[Gurl]

I don't have kids, and I don't know anything about Carborro, but I have to put in a plug for MrsSteele's neighborhood, Woodcroft.

The homes are older, and you can get a lot for the money. The trees are stunning, and there are always kids out playing, riding bikes, roller blading, etc. (Not in a haphazard way, but in a way that makes you think, "What a happy neighborhood.")

The other thing that I see in Woodcroft, and neighboring Hope Valley Farms is that entire 'families' are out together doing these activities. I very rarely see that when I drive through other neighborhoods.

Lastly, the Woodcroft/HVF area is extremely diverse - that's why I like it. There is a good mix of races and socioeconomic families. Also a good mix of ages...from young families to older people. It's just a nice 'mix'.

If I were a kid growing up, I'd want to live in Woodcroft. (eta: it's 27713 )

Originally Posted by coltank

The schools with the best scores in Cary are all fed from brand new neighborhoods with 400k+ houses. Well to do, intelligent parents breed intelligent children. For the most part anyway..

It would be interesting to see how well these kids ultimately do in college - and beyond.

I have a lot of friends 'tested well' in high school - and even got into VERY good schools, and they're dumb as rocks. They never really 'learned' anything...thinking their 'education' would carry them. On the other hand, some of my most successful friends were (according to them) 'average' in school, and they're self-employed millionaires.

I"m not advocating one way or the other, but I'd be interested to see the 'real' stats on how 'kids from Cary' fare in the real world. At the end of the day, I honestly feel that parently need to be a very involved in their kids' education. They can't simply rely on a 'good school' to prepare them for the real world.

[mdp_az]

IdaClaire, I'm somewhat in the same boat as you. We currently live in NW Raleigh and want to move to Durham. We have a 3 year old son. I love Durham's older historic neighborhoods, and even posted something a few months ago about raising a child there after locating a home in Trinity Park I was interested in. My biggest struggle is with giving my son freedom as he grows older to explore his surroundings, ride his bike, etc... I also have some concern about the efficiency of an older home vs. building a new green-certified, energy star home. FWIW, we're looking at the $400-450k range.

Ultimately, we seem to be leaning to areas in NW Durham near the Eno where we can build a home. Even though DT Durham is constantly improving, I just don't think I could be comfortable enough letting my child wander around much due to the proximity of some rather unsavory areas. Alternatively, the n'hood we're looking at borders Eno River SP w/ an access trail...that'll give awesome access to the woods in a safe area. We'll be able to build our efficient home out there, and still have the ability to quickly ride our bikes over to the N-S Greenway & ATT into downtown to enjoy the many amenities there. I realize there are safety issues with the woods just as there are with urban areas, however we're simply more comfortable with this, in part, b/c its how we grew up. We just feel like NW Durham will give us the best balance of access to DT Durham with the benefits of very safe surroundings and easy access to the beautiful natural surroundings of the Eno! Lastly, it will have us zoned for some of Durham's best schools!

Best of luck as you weigh your options. Kids certainly make the decision much more challenging. Without a kid, there's no question we'd have bought in Trinity Park already.

[piedmont]

If I didn't love living in rural Orange county, I would happily move to Durham, for exactly the reasons you note. Since you also have the option of CH/C schools, I agree that it is a no-brainer. I feel like Durham is finally starting to catch up and realize the promise that I knew it had 15 years ago when I lived there.

[alice_61]

I think my biggest concerns would be crime and education. Parents can travel if they need something that is not in their neighborhood but children can't as easily. If you want your child to become independent it really helps to live in a place where you feel safe letting children out of your sight. If the schools are good, there will probably be connections through it for friends, activities, etc, although, if you live in Durham and your child goes to school in Chapel Hill, it will be much less convenient for play dates.

I think if my husband were committed to working in Chapel Hill, that I would choose a home there. A town benefits from teachers with a strong connection to the community. Maybe you could find a home that is within walking distance to your husband's school. I'd look for a house or a townhome, even if it isn't perfect. There are bargains occassionally; you just have to keep looking every day and be prepared to act fast. We considered sending our child to a private school in Durham and tried out the commute from Chapel Hill for a couple days. I found it stressful. If you lived close to your husband's school, he might not need a car and would be much better able to take of your children before and after school. He and your child would have more time for other activities than commmuting.

[toot68]

Originally Posted by IdaClaire

So, I guess I'm asking for advice from folks with kids who have knowledge of both Durham and Carrboro. Am I crazy to consider raising my daughter in "the city"? She could still ride with her father to Carrboro for school, but if we are to fully participate in our community, we'd send her to school in Durham. Am I crazy to be considering choosing Durham Public Schools over Chapel Hill's? Our friends' children all seem to be thriving academically, well-read, and intellectually curious, as much so as the children I've met in Chapel Hill, so I'm not sure why Durham Public Schools seem to get a bad rap.

I wouldn't worry about the schools. Plenty of very committed parents in the school districts fed by the durham neighborhoods your interested in. I honestly wouldn't even consider the school district in picking where to live (we've had several people gasp at the fact we're going to send our kids to New Hope Elementary). Pick the area that makes you happiest. I love what has happened to downtown durham since I've lived here. I think it'll be a great place to raise a kid. If my wife worked in Durham we'd not think twice about living there, but since she's in Chapel Hill we decided to live in between.

[PDXmom]

We have 2 kids (one elementary and one preschool). We picked Durham for our home, even though we could have afforded Chapel Hill / Carrborro. We moved from an urban neighborhood where older kids could roam w/out worry and all the kids walked to school. It was very much Norman Rockwell. But everyone was the same color and same socio-economic status.

Now our children are exposed to a wide range of people. It's been good for them. My 2nd grader could not understand why a classmate here in Durham never did her homework. He thought her mom did not care about her. The mom works 2 jobs and the daughter is in afterschool care. This and other situations have led to some profound conversations that have real life faces for my child.

We live in the burbs near Southpoint. So we are in a very safe area where the kids can roam and we play almost nightly with the neighboring kids. Some go to the same school (Creekside), some go to DPS magnet schools, and some go to private school. But they all play together. From what you have posted you seem like more of an urban gal so the area I'm in would probably be a hard transition.

In my old neighborhood if you did not go to the neighborhood school it very much impacted who you played with. But I have not seen that with DPS since it seems so many of the kids go to schools outside their assigned school. And because schools like Creekside are so large, unless your child is in the same grade then they are probably not going to see their neighborhood friends too much at school. But, they would see them on the bus if they ride.

Someone commented that the AIG / TAG offerings might not be as great in Durham than in Chapel Hill. I don't know that I agree with that. I have a friend who has 2 AIG kids the oldest is in 7th grade and has gone to DPS schools since K. They considered moving to CH. But they felt that they were so many AIG students in CH that they got less individual attention than they did at their DPS school.

Good luck making the choice. Fortunately, your child is still young. You have time.