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Old 07-20-2013, 08:42 AM
 
843 posts, read 2,097,381 times
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.... for skilled craftspersons?

On another thread someone was wanting a reasonable, fast turnaround, highly skilled carpenter to do some repairs on their house. I asked what 'reasonable' ment. I didnt want to be disrespectful and totally hijack their thread.

What do people in the Triangle think 'reasonable' is for a trades person. Plumber? Electrician? Carpenter? Handyman? Landscapers?

Since the economy tanked, all I EVER see on CD is people shopping by price. They want the best work for the cheapest. I have alot of thoughts on this topic. Our wages have dont nothing but go down...I will postmy thoughts soon, but I want to see what others think.

Per hour, what are these trades worth? What is your expectations? Remember ALL trades are self employed. Maybe not the guy at your door. He may be an hourly employee, but his boss is.
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Old 07-20-2013, 08:55 AM
 
Location: Don't be so snarky
1,521 posts, read 2,760,364 times
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All about expectations. Tradespeople should sell their value like anyone else.

Example - called a guy to come install a fan. Old one was already removed, all he had to do was bolt and wire - charged me $125 for 20 minutes of work because of the "trip fee" to come out and work. My bad for not aligning expectations, and his bad for not being clear up front.

A shrewd businessperson would explain how normally they charge for a full hour, but this was cake, no worries, give me $50 and call me to do more work.

Now I've got multiple needs for an electrician and going to get it all done at once....guess who isn't getting a phone call?
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Old 07-20-2013, 09:03 AM
 
Location: under the beautiful Carolina blue
22,654 posts, read 36,662,452 times
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Somewhat along the lines of rory....I don't really have an expectation of price when I call for a quote. My BIL was a general contractor and carpenter/craftsman for over 30 years. I can get any info I need from him as far as whether an estimate looks ok if I am unsure myself. I'm looking more for intangibles. Does the person return phone calls? If I have to chase you down for a call back merely to get an estimate, there is no way on god's green earth I am expecting an easy time dealing with you on a job. Do you show for said estimate? Are you capable of explaining things in layman's terms? Are you interested in what I want, or are you interested in selling what you want? Are you licensed and insured?

I usually ask people I know and respect for referrals so that's my starting point in any given situation. After that, I somewhat go by "you want fast, great AND cheap? You can get two of those"....I respect any tradesman's schedule. If I NEED something done fast, that is different from WANTING something done fast. I am always happy to hear that the guy I want to use is busy, but I'm also happy when I see they can manage their time wisely.

All this said, having had a family member in the business I totally understand the overhead you guys deal with. I remember one time my BIL gave someone an estimate and the person responded "well I priced the materials, they don't cost that much!" as if he should then work for free!
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Old 07-20-2013, 09:25 AM
 
Location: My House
34,937 posts, read 36,167,969 times
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I want an honest person with a good work ethic. I don't want someone who bids lower for a job than it will cost, then later expects me to eat the cost of their bidding mistake. That one really irritates me, and makes me distrust tradespeople that I do not know/were not referred through a friend.
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Old 07-20-2013, 09:55 AM
 
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I think this is a good question for this forum. We pay $100-300 per hour for graduate level professionals, how much should we pay for someone who does skilled trades? Should we take into account the ickiness of the job? Plumbers have to deal with gross stuff and anyone who goes in my crawlspace has to deal with spiders. Does sweating in the hot sun (roofers and landscapers) demand a premium?
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Old 07-20-2013, 10:30 AM
 
Location: Durham, NC
2,024 posts, read 5,906,711 times
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We called out an electrician a few weeks ago to repair two light fixtures that went oddly awry in our house. Turned out to be the power switches, damaged in the process of the original electrician screwing them into our house. He charged us $97.50, which I thought fair.

While there he evaluated a range of other options -- a messy/awful breaker box, extra circuit needed in kitchen, and extra circuits needed in our office, electronic dimmers needed for several lights -- and we asked him to quote that work out. The breaker box in particular is going to be many hours of work (it looks like a rats nest in there... crappy original subcontractor work.) He sent us a detailed, professional quote coming to right around $2,000 for a couple of days' work.

I know there are some folks who would shop around at that price. However: I was very impressed by his demeanor, professionalism and follow-through. More importantly, he came recommended by literally a dozen neighbors on the Trinity Park listserv as *the* electrician to use, with expertise in old houses like mine.

Perhaps I could save $500-600 by going bargain basement on this, but I don't mind paying more to get quality, reliable work.

FWIW, I think getting traction on neighborhood listservs -- building a rep by working in a neighborhood and then asking satisfied customers if they would keep you in mind and give word of mouth referrals -- is a great way to go. There are tradesmen, lawn services and other repair folks who my neighbors swear by that aren't the "big name" fleets of trucks you see roaming the streets. WOM is the way to go in my opinion. And unlike Angie's List, it's free....
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Old 07-20-2013, 10:37 AM
 
843 posts, read 2,097,381 times
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I bet I went to as much or more schooling than your 'graduate level professionals' did. Yet if I tried to get even $100 an hour I would be home watching alot of TV during the day....let alone the $1000's and 1000's worth of power and hand tools, ladders, scaffolds, pressure washers ect I have to have and upkeep.

2 years Vo-Tech training during high school. 1/2 of every school day was spent at a different school learning the trade. I took Carpentry/Masonry

4 years NJ Carpenters Union Apprentice School. 4 hrs a night for 9 months for 4 years. On job training for 40 hrs a week.

Asbestos removal training 4 week course

Blue print reading classes 2 semesters at a local CC

Graphic design classes 2 semesters at CC. Most permits need a plan attached. I learned to draw them myself. Decks and porchs ect.

EPA lead paint removal class REQUIRED to now work on any house built before 1977 that has lead paint.

The other day I was removing rotted soffits and facias on a 40' ladder. working above my head, with ant infested rotted wood falling down my sweaty neck. It was 95 degrees, on the sunny side of the house. The homeowner was inside, didnt even offer me a drink of water. He complained I didnt stop my hrs when I ran to the lumber yard.... to get material for HIS job. The lumber yard was 1.2 miles from his house. I was back in 1/2 hr. I'll never work for him again....

My hourly rate is less than it was 8 years ago.

No wonder I want to go to truck driving school and get out of this work!!! LOL People treat you like a subservient class sometimes....

Last edited by ncmickey; 07-20-2013 at 10:59 AM..
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Old 07-20-2013, 11:04 AM
 
9,848 posts, read 30,239,666 times
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I think like anything it varies from trade, but over the years I have come to expect to pay $90-$100 per hour for a skilled tradesman.

There will always be jerks and people who shop by price no matter what the economy. Price is what you pay, value is what you get. I value a job well done and done right the first time.
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Old 07-20-2013, 11:32 AM
 
Location: Morrisville, NC
9,141 posts, read 14,717,969 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rory breaker View Post
All about expectations. Tradespeople should sell their value like anyone else.

Example - called a guy to come install a fan. Old one was already removed, all he had to do was bolt and wire - charged me $125 for 20 minutes of work because of the "trip fee" to come out and work. My bad for not aligning expectations, and his bad for not being clear up front.

A shrewd businessperson would explain how normally they charge for a full hour, but this was cake, no worries, give me $50 and call me to do more work.

Now I've got multiple needs for an electrician and going to get it all done at once....guess who isn't getting a phone call?
Honestly, taking the old fan down probably saved 5 minutes, maybe. He still had to drive out the same amount of time either way. Let's say he was close and his trip time was 20 minutes and he had something lined up right after so no unproductive time. So, instead of spending 45 minutes on your call he spent 40 and you feel like that's worth less than 50% of his normal charge? I am the biggest DIY person in the world, but when I call someone out to do something I do not have the skills for or don't have time for,I know they have to make money and I know how much time he is really getting paid for a day v unproductive time. I can promise you he is not getting rich on that fee structure.
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Old 07-20-2013, 11:46 AM
 
Location: Don't be so snarky
1,521 posts, read 2,760,364 times
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Bottom line - guy isn't getting a call back for charging me $125 to put up a "5-minute" plug n play fan from Lowe's, especially when my expectation was lower. I paid him, he went on his way. Had he said up front "hey, do you have anything else that needs to get done, if I'm coming out there, may as well kill two birds..." But he didn't. He left me with the impression that he was happy to overcharge me for this one job and bounce. So that's what he did, instead of consultating, setting the expectation up front, which would have earned him a ton of repeat business from me, let alone others.

On the flip side, had a plumber come out to install a new hot water heater. He was responsive and on the ball. Gave me all my options and pricing and very clear expectations on timing. Nailed the install, did everything he said he would, when he said he would, in an agreed upon manner. Not only will I be calling him for everything, I will submit a social review and recommend to friends. That's how you build loyalty and repeat business. Expectations, show an interest in being more than a one and done service, deliver.
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