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540 through Cary/Apex has very little traffic during the day, when surface streets are not congested, but it is fairly busy at rush hour when parallel roads like 55 and Davis get crowded. If I leave work early or late enough, I can take 55 or Davis, but if I leave between 5pm and 6pm I take the toll road as it can save quite a bit of time.
This is the irony when people (not Orulz) complain about tolls on the Western Wake Expressway. Both Davis and 55 were widened at taxpayer expense. Note that in the case of 540 from north Raleigh and north Wake, the two-lane roads (Strickland and 98) were not widened.
Quote:
Originally Posted by orulz
This is exactly what I suspect would happen if 540 through North Raleigh were tolled with similar toll rates. Most people will only consider a toll road of the alternative is congested. Traffic on 540 would stay pretty heavy during rush hour as there isn't really enough spare capacity on the alternatives to absorb much traffic. Outside of rush hour, more people would stick to surface streets.
The major political battle is not likely to be over tolling the new fourth lane on 540; instead, it's going to be tolling the existing lanes. It's not the same as the debate on tolling the entirety of I-95 to pay for renovations. Most of I-95 is 50 years old and is functionally obsolete. 540 is not obsolete; it's just getting busy.
You gotta find better examples then Boone. If you have ever been up there you'd understand why. Traffic is basically a parking lot during school semesters and the net population doesn't include the ever expanding 20k university.
^^^There are two NC areas that made the list above, and Boone ain't one of them. When Boone is, then you've got a valid point.
For the record, I have seen the special event traffic on US 321 and it can be a pain. However, it's nothing like the daily weekday parking lots that can be found in the Triangle. It is a known fact that NC has areas that donate fuel tax dollars to other areas of the state. The Triangle is one of those donors, while places like Boone are one of those recipients. Many other states have the same issues of urban donors and rural recipients. As a result, the urban needs end up getting paid for with additional revenue (ie higher property taxes or tolls).
Last edited by urbancharlotte; 11-28-2013 at 10:49 AM..
^^^There are two NC areas that made the list above, and Boone ain't one of them. When Boone is, then you've got a valid point.
For the record, I have seen the special event traffic on US 321 and it can be a pain. However, it's nothing like the daily weekday parking lots that can be found in the Triangle. It is a known fact that NC has areas that donate fuel tax dollars to other areas of the state. The Triangle is one of those donors, while places like Boone are one of those recipients. Many other states have the same issues of urban donors and rural recipients. As a result, the urban needs end up getting paid for with additional revenue (ie higher property taxes or tolls).
That list! Some of those bring back unpleasant memories.
Interesting that Charlotte and Raleigh-Cary made the list. People always claim traffic is a cakewalk here.
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Not sure why you have to be nasty. If I am wrong, then explain why and how I am wrong. All I said is they were already considering taking away a free road and making it a toll road. This has been reported in the N&O, ABC11, etc
While raising the cost of a toll road is one thing, putting a new toll on existing roads is another thing entirely. That's what Raleigh City Council is talking about doing on the northern half of Interstate 540.
"Raleigh-Cary" I-40 is #47th, but it's still pale compared to the top 20.
I can think of several in Miami/Ft Lauderdale alone that are worse than I-40 between Raleigh and Cary.
Palmetto (826) southbound to Kendall
Northbound I-95 from DT Miaimi to FTL Afternoon and reverse in the AM
I-595 Westboard from I-95
US1 south of the end of I-95 end during both rush hours
As for that article, what is up with the poorly edited copy? (see below)
#47, I-40 Eastbound, Raleigh-Cary
Worst corridor: Airport Blvd./Exit 284 through NC-54/Exit 290
Length of worst corridor: 6.9 miles
Rush hour travel time tax on worst corridor: 81%
Longest rush hour travel time on worst corridor 12 miles
Time per mile during longest rush hour travel period 1.66 miles
source: 50 Worst Commutes: America's Highways to Hell
Longest rush hour travel time is measured in miles? Time per mile during longest rush hour is also measured in miles alone?
Also, nobody that's really from Raleigh would say "The I-40"
Not sure why you have to be nasty. If I am wrong, then explain why and how I am wrong. All I said is they were already considering taking away a free road and making it a toll road.
That's not how you worded your previous post. Your earlier post makes it sound like they're taking away all alternative roads. I'm not trying to be nasty here. I just get severely annoyed when people start throwing words around insinuating something is going to happen that isn't.
That's not how you worded your previous post. Your earlier post makes it sound like they're taking away all alternative roads. I'm not trying to be nasty here. I just get severely annoyed when people start throwing words around insinuating something is going to happen that isn't.
The main problem with shellsd's response is that the post it was responding to had a total of two sentences. While "free alternative roads" was only explicitly defined in the second sentence, it would have been obvious to anyone that was both paying attention and wasn't just going out of their way to be contrary what was being referred to in the rest of the post, implicitly.
And at the end of the day, the article doesn't say EXISTING lanes of 540 will be tolled, so it makes no sense to assume that they will.
Dunno ... I came from an area where traffic jams were de rigueur during rush hour, and I really don't think these extra lanes are anywhere near a priority here. Traffic jams happen. Honestly, I don't see how the extra lanes will help much. And as far as I'm concerned, we need more tolls/increased tolls like a hole in the head. Also, NC would have to project what age groups will be prominent in thirty years. Many people in their 30's and older now, including baby boomers, will be retired. Retirees may not be on 540 as often as younger age groups. With the economy the way it is and the amount of jobs the way they are, will younger age groups fill the gap that aptly?
This all seems like part of a downward spiral to me.
First ... we have the highest gas tax in this part of the Southeast. It's no secret that people near the NC/VA border fill their cars with gas before going into NC. The difference is quite significant.
Next, the glittering prize for many counties and municipalities ... tolls! Gosh, NC seems so entranced by tolls.
The toll system in NC is ridiculous. The tolls are too high for the stretches of roads (IMO), and I don't like how the toll authority can actually tack on a "invoice revision" and increase the toll after you pay the toll. (Actually happened to me ... I stupidly found myself on the toll road in a ditsy moment and got off at the first exit. When I didn't get my invoice, I called the NCTA because I really didn't want to find a "surprise" on my next bill, paid the toll, and went my merry way, thinking it was all fixed. It wasn't. I got charged an additional invoice adjustment fee on my statement that doubled my original toll, even though I paid well before the due date.) I've checked all literature ... no mention is made at all of an extra invoice adjustment charge.
I feel rotten that people who had been waiting for the newer extensions of road got short-changed. And no, I do NOT believe that the tolls will magically go away once the state gets what it wants. Yes, I have seen when that happened. But that was ONE instance in the dozen of tolls roads I've traveled on over the years. Municipalities will usually find an excuse to keep the tolls AND increase them for good measure. It rarely ends.
How can increasing tolls possibly attract business? Shouldn't attracting jobs be a priority for NC? Does it really think that higher gas taxes and more and increased tolls are appealing?
I suppose I'm spoiled because I go to the DC area frequently, and am envious of the great bus system they have over there. Many people in DC don't even own a car because between the Metro and the bus system because they don't need one. (They use Zip cars and rental cars as necessary.) In comparison, the CAT bus system doesn't adequately serve many areas of Raleigh in some places ... if they serve certain places at all. Those inside the Beltway here have a decent system, but outside the Beltway, it's hit or miss. I agree with those who feel this is the way to go. I feel THIS would be attractive to businesses, particularly if you add more stops and bus lines from the airport and the rail stations. Not ways to further fleece motorists in NC.
I'm still waiting and seeing, and this is still years off and in the "kick-around" stage. Maybe it won't be as bad as it looks now Maybe.
One reason for the high gas tax in NC: counties do not pay to maintain secondary roads in this state. NCDOT does. This means the counties don't have to raise their own taxes -- either property taxes or sales taxes -- to cover maintenance of secondary roads.
Are tolls on 540 higher than tolls on the Sam Rayburn or the President George Bush in north Dallas metro? Don't think so.
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