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And to make it local...there have been a couple of delis here, but none of them do well. Admittedly, none were as good as real deli. I wonder why it's so hard to replicate good, falling apart, melt in your mouth pastrami here.
Those that have tried and failed did so because they didn't go all the way in. It's not just about the quality of meat, it's also a bit about ambiance (and by ambiance I probably mean aroma more than anything). They need to have a bowl of sours on each table and they need to proudly display traditional deli items for all to see (hanging salami's, jars of pickles, a griddle with knishes and hotdogs slow cooking but ready to serve). And they need to focus less on pricing it right and more on presenting it right.
There's a deli-styled restaurant in New Jersey called Harold's that's grown in enormous popularity long after the famous ones were established. They didn't worry about anything other than serving traditional deli fare in abundance and managed to become part of the deli conversation in what was a saturated and exclusive group. They charge a small ransom for everything but people are willing to pay it because the food is good, they walk out stuffed to the gills and it's the experience they expect. There is absolutely no reason why that wouldn't work in the Triangle.
I remember a friend of mine telling me back in 2010 that the reason there wasn't what I considered a decent Chinese Buffet restaurant is because it's not in great demand around here. Then one opened on Capital and Millbrook, which was exactly what I was looking for, and the place is packed whenever we go there. If someone opened up a decent kosher-styled deli it would definitely work. But it has to replicate the experience, not simply reference it.
That's a great point about Harold's. That place is really good (in fact, we went there after my father's memorial service). He would have approved. Definitely can work here.
The ambiance is an interesting point, but I'm not sure it's strictly required. It might pull people in initially but if the food is good, people will come back.
One problem I can imagine is volume of business. Someone was asking why it's hard to get good pastrami down here, well, I'd imagine that it's not cost-effective to cure your own, and/or keep it hot and ready to go all day, if you're selling three or four sandwiches a day. Same thing for knishes on the grill. I realize there are a lot of transplanted New Yorkers down here but seriously, how many average Raleigh residents are going to walk into a new deli and order a knish?
The other problem I can imagine is just lack of familiarity with the cuisine. Some of the classic deli stuff is kind of intimidating or "weird" if you've never had it before (chopped liver, kasha) and a lot of it may just not be to people's tastes if they didn't grow up eating it (corned beef, pastrami, knishes). So that's a barrier to catching on with people who didn't grow up in the Northeast (still the majority down here, these message boards notwithstanding).
Another potential issue is that where a lot of ethnic groups seem to congregate in certain areas, so you get little clusters of ethnic restaurants (e.g. Cary or Capital Blvd), New Yorkers are spread out all over the place down here, so there isn't a little "NewYorkTown" where a deli could get the concentration of potential customers they might need to survive.
This is all just speculatin' on a hypothesis, but these seem like potential barriers to success that might be more significant than the presence or absence of salamis hanging from the ceiling.
The ambiance is an interesting point, but I'm not sure it's strictly required. It might pull people in initially but if the food is good, people will come back.
One problem I can imagine is volume of business. Someone was asking why it's hard to get good pastrami down here, well, I'd imagine that it's not cost-effective to cure your own, and/or keep it hot and ready to go all day, if you're selling three or four sandwiches a day. Same thing for knishes on the grill. I realize there are a lot of transplanted New Yorkers down here but seriously, how many average Raleigh residents are going to walk into a new deli and order a knish?
The other problem I can imagine is just lack of familiarity with the cuisine. Some of the classic deli stuff is kind of intimidating or "weird" if you've never had it before (chopped liver, kasha) and a lot of it may just not be to people's tastes if they didn't grow up eating it (corned beef, pastrami, knishes). So that's a barrier to catching on with people who didn't grow up in the Northeast (still the majority down here, these message boards notwithstanding).
Another potential issue is that where a lot of ethnic groups seem to congregate in certain areas, so you get little clusters of ethnic restaurants (e.g. Cary or Capital Blvd), New Yorkers are spread out all over the place down here, so there isn't a little "NewYorkTown" where a deli could get the concentration of potential customers they might need to survive.
This is all just speculatin' on a hypothesis, but these seem like potential barriers to success that might be more significant than the presence or absence of salamis hanging from the ceiling.
Problems, issues and obstacles... you're no fun. Now, tell me how to overcome these things and I'll move you to the head of the class.
I'll admit that some of the fringe stuff wouldn't sell but I never order that stuff when I eat at a deli. The Harold's model would totally work down here. This is the land of BBQ and smoked meats for cryin' out loud, everyone loves to indulge in meat that's skillfully prepared for dining. Plus the over-sized portions would be quite the novelty down here as well.
Problems, issue and obstacles... you're no fun. Now, tell me how to overcome these things and I'll move you to the head of the class.
Not my department, Boss.
Quote:
I'll admit that some of the fringe stuff wouldn't sell but I never order that stuff when I eat at a deli. The Harold's model would totally work down here. This is the land of BBQ and smoked meats for cryin' out loud, everyone loves to indulge in meat that's skillfully prepared for dining. Plus the over-sized portions would be quite the novelty down here as well.
Well, let's brainstorm a little. Lord knows we don't need any more "NY-style Pizza" places down here; what can we do to get some good deli? Coming from Boston, I'd consider it a huge improvement to have good deli nearby.
That said, let me throw out a little more doom & gloom:
First, when it comes to retail establishments, I'm generally a believer in the free market, i.e., if there were a demand for NY deli in the Triangle, there would already be a successful deli around here. So that makes me wonder why previous attempts (if any) have failed.
My next suspicion -- perhaps unfair to my new Southern neighbors -- is a mental image of a nice Southern couple walking into the deli, ordering something simple like roast beef or turkey sandwiches, and thinking "I could make this at home. Why did I just spend seven dollars on that sandwich?" Or ordering corned beef on white bread with pickles and coleslaw (and Texas Pete) on it and not getting what the big deal is.
So the challenge is not just to get people in the hypothetical deli, but to sell them on the items that are really the "stars" of the lineup (i.e. the pastrami, the corned beef, etc.).
To try to be positive about it, it seems like one potentially good option would be to go for an area like downtown Raleigh (or downtown Durham) where there's a lot of foot traffic. If people don't have to make a special trip to the deli, they're more likely to try it (or try it more than once if they're nonplussed at first), and if they go with their coworkers, they're more likely to have a companion who can make recommendations about what to try. In that sort of scenario, the visual appeal would be a selling point, as the salamis and mishegas would make people more likely to notice it as they walked by.
My next suspicion -- perhaps unfair to my new Southern neighbors -- is a mental image of a nice Southern couple walking into the deli, ordering something simple like roast beef or turkey sandwiches, and thinking "I could make this at home. Why did I just spend seven dollars on that sandwich?" Or ordering corned beef on white bread with pickles and coleslaw (and Texas Pete) on it and not getting what the big deal is.
LMAO! I was in LA on business and convinced some co-workers to go to Canter's on Fairfax with me for lunch (my grandmother used to take me there every time we visited). One of my co-workers, after perusing the menu for quite a bit of time, places an order for turkey on wheat bread. REALLY??
Location: Chapel Hill, NC, formerly NoVA and Phila
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Just found out you can order knishes in the Triangle. Haven't tried them yet. Last one I had was in Florida over Christmas break...If you do try them, please let us know how they are.
Location: Chapel Hill, NC, formerly NoVA and Phila
9,779 posts, read 15,790,796 times
Reputation: 10888
Just found out you can order knishes in the Triangle. Haven't tried them yet. Last one I had was in Florida over Christmas break... If you do try them, please let us know how they are. knish-a-licious
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If you do try them, please let us know how they are.
