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All high schools should successfully prepare students for the next stage in life.
Not everyone believes that this exclusively means preparing students for college. To quote a major presidential candidate in our last election:
Quote:
President Obama once said he wants everybody in America to go to college. What a snob. There are good, decent men and women who go out and work hard every day and put their skills to test that aren't taught by some liberal college professor that (tries) to indoctrinate them.
Not everyone believes that this exclusively means preparing students for college. To quote a major presidential candidate in our last election: "President Obama once said he wants everybody in America to go to college. What a snob. There are good, decent men and women who go out and work hard every day and put their skills to test that aren't taught by some liberal college professor that (tries) to indoctrinate them."
Was Santorum really considered a major Presidential candidate? That's just plain scary.
And there's nothing wrong with aspiring to steer our society to a place where everyone who wants to, can go to college; it's certainly not snobbery (though that's a great campaign trail sound bite, I'll give Santorum that much credit). I've counseled my children all along that the reason for pursuing education is so that they can decide what to do with their lives rather than be limited by lack of preparation. If they qualify for college but decide to join the military or pursue a lay career, that's awesome if that's what they want. But at least position yourself to have options.
To be certain, some of the smartest people I've ever met never attended nor considered attending college. But if that was because they didn't qualify or couldn't afford to go, what a shame.
Location: Chapel Hill, NC, formerly NoVA and Phila
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CHTransplant
Not everyone believes that this exclusively means preparing students for college. To quote a major presidential candidate in our last election:
I agree that the goal for high schools is not to prepare all students for college but to get students ready for the next step after high school which should involve some kind of education or training. That can mean a technical school, cosmetology school, the military, community college, etc., in addition to a 4-year college. There is absolutely nothing wrong with pursuing an avenue other than college as long as you are pursuing something that will lead to some kind of career.
But even if we go with the assumption that the 52% of students in Johnston County School District who didn't take the SAT all have reasonable, alternative plans for when high school ends, that doesn't change the fact that the 48% of students who did take the SATs, on average, scored below the state and national averages.
Again, the reason that surprised me is not because a county as a whole scored below the NC and US average - other school districts in the Triangle did, too (Chatham and Durham) - but because I often see Johnston County schools recommended as an "excellent" alternative to Wake County schools. As a relative newcomer to the Triangle and one who resides on the western end of it, I don't know much about Johnston County or its schools. After hearing it recommended so much, though, I expected that test scores would be fairly comparable to those in Wake, especially since the potential transplants who ask about the schools are often looking for ones that will get their children "college ready." I fail to see how anyone could describe the district as "excellent" when academic scores are below the state average, which is below the national average.
I agree that the goal for high schools is not to prepare all students for college but to get students ready for the next step after high school which should involve some kind of education or training. That can mean a technical school, cosmetology school, the military, community college, etc., in addition to a 4-year college. There is absolutely nothing wrong with pursuing an avenue other than college as long as you are pursuing something that will lead to some kind of career.
But even if we go with the assumption that the 52% of students in Johnston County School District who didn't take the SAT all have reasonable, alternative plans for when high school ends, that doesn't change the fact that the 48% of students who did take the SATs, on average, scored below the state and national averages.
Again, the reason that surprised me is not because a county as a whole scored below the NC and US average - other school districts in the Triangle did, too (Chatham and Durham) - but because I often see Johnston County schools recommended as an "excellent" alternative to Wake County schools. As a relative newcomer to the Triangle and one who resides on the western end of it, I don't know much about Johnston County or its schools. After hearing it recommended so much, though, I expected that test scores would be fairly comparable to those in Wake, especially since the potential transplants who ask about the schools are often looking for ones that will get their children "college ready." I fail to see how anyone could describe the district as "excellent" when academic scores are below the state average, which is below the national average.
The ones that tend to do the recommending of Johnson County Schools tend to believe some myths about Wake country's and....well....have other agendas.
Location: Chapel Hill, NC, formerly NoVA and Phila
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Originally Posted by NYC2RDU
This whole thread underscores the bigger issue, which is that economic standing plays a much bigger role than intelligence. My children have been pointed towards college since birth and my wife and I have constantly kept them moving in that direction since preschool. That's not to say that we browbeat them or are overbearing, just that college and careers have been part of the dialogue since forever. But in poorer sections of North Carolina that's not necessarily the case.
If you're not from a family that places a high value on advanced education or career planning, if you're from a place where having a job and enough money to get by is a yardstick by which you're measured, SAT's don't much matter. You haven't been made to take school very seriously, it's just something you need to do until you're old enough to make your own decisions. In those places, the scores are going to be lower.
Is it because natural ability and intelligence is lacking? No. The SAT's and ACT's are skewered to benefit those who prepare for test taking and who lay down a solid foundation on which to accumulate the skills and knowledge necessary to be successful. The scores reflect on the degree of preparedness more than intelligence (and yes, I know, that's not a hard rule but it is a good general one). If they added a section which focused on lay skills like automotive, engine or farming I'm willing to bet some of our NC counties would appreciate a noticeable uptick in their scores while the professionally oriented ones would drop.
I agree with this completely. And I even see it firsthand in our school district starting at a young age. I volunteer there every week helping students go over extra math work they are given (above and beyond the curriculum). The teacher gives the extra math work to all students. But I only go over it with those who have actually completed it. Even as young as 2nd grade, you can see who is being encouraged to do this extra work by their parents and who is not (because nearly all of them who complete the worksheet mention that their parents helped them with it). Consistently, it's the same kids week in and week out who don't attempt it at all. It's sad, but I know the school can only do so much.
Having said that, being in a classroom where the majority of students don't care can have a big effect on your kid's learning. That's why people often seek schools that have families of similar socioeconomic status and educational values. And if you want your child to care about school and go on to college, being in a classroom with students from similar families is helpful.
Schools have to work with the population of students sent to them. I hesitate to turn averages into an assessment of whether a school is able to meet an individual student's needs.
Location: Chapel Hill, NC, formerly NoVA and Phila
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CHTransplant
Schools have to work with the population of students sent to them. I hesitate to turn averages into an assessment of whether a school is able to meet an individual student's needs.
And nobody did. In general, a school is only as good as the students who attend it. In that vein, the other students your kids go to school with can make a big difference in your child's academic success. And if you want your child to go to college, he is more likely to be successful if he's in a school or classroom full of kids who are also on a college track. Also, schools that have a majority of kids going on to college often have more advanced classes, broader academic selections, and more scholastic extracurricular activities.
That's not to say a student cannot be successful in "less academic" schools (and in some cases it can be an advantage - big fish, little pond theory), but in general, people looking for a school similar to their "great school district up north" are likely looking for schools that are at least average across the board in test scores. And if the school is not at least average because of the population of students who attend the school, then I'm not sure why a new transplant would want their kid to go there, unless they are part of a similar population and have similar types of needs.
Schools have to work with the population of students sent to them. I hesitate to turn averages into an assessment of whether a school is able to meet an individual student's needs.
Yup! I volunteer teach in a program for middle school aged children in Durham, which I've since learned is one of the poorest based on the lunch program and which also has among the lowest test scores in the county. If there's a discernible difference between their teachers and those at the middle school my own boys went to in North Raleigh, I can't see it. They are motivated, bright and (very) dedicated to their students. But you can only do so much in that role.
And nobody did. In general, a school is only as good as the students who attend it. In that vein, the other students your kids go to school with can make a big difference in your child's academic success. And if you want your child to go to college, he is more likely to be successful if he's in a school or classroom full of kids who are also on a college track. Also, schools that have a majority of kids going on to college often have more advanced classes, broader academic selections, and more scholastic extracurricular activities.
That's not to say a student cannot be successful in "less academic" schools (and in some cases it can be an advantage - big fish, little pond theory), but in general, people looking for a school similar to their "great school district up north" are likely looking for schools that are at least average across the board in test scores. And if the school is not at least average because of the population of students who attend the school, then I'm not sure why a new transplant would want their kid to go there, unless they are part of a similar population and have similar types of needs.
I absolutely agree with you regarding transplants looking for schools. I'm less sold on the impact that any given school has on any given individual student if you control for all of the other variables in that child's life.
I'm trying to find information on the spring 2014 ACT scores for Durham and NC. I've googled but not found them. Anyone know?
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