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I have on more than one occasions heard talk about a direct exit. From Crabtree to 440. That would also help.
Yes, the study done by the city a few years ago recommended making Crabtree Valley Ave a major thoroughfare connected directly to 440, but there doesn't seem to be any actual movement on trying to get it done. Glenwood grade separation at Creedmoor and Lead Mine/Blue Ridge has also been proposed. None of it will come cheap or easy.
With all this growth, I'm sooooo curious to see Raleigh in 10 years or so. I might not even recognize some areas! It makes me happy and sad at the same time. I kinda like the old Raleigh, the smaller capital city. Now it's going down an Austin, TX path!
With all this growth, I'm sooooo curious to see Raleigh in 10 years or so. I might not even recognize some areas! It makes me happy and sad at the same time. I kinda like the old Raleigh, the smaller capital city. Now it's going down an Austin, TX path!
Down the same path? Austin and the Triangle are practically a yuppie couple jogging side by side with a starbucks iced latte in one hand and apple product with the I-fit app open in the other.
It's been years since we were there and while we never cared for it, I can't believe it is in as much trouble as indicated here. I never would have thought that. What is the occupancy rate now?
I was pretty alarmed by how poorly Cary Towne Center was doing the last time I visited, so I dug up the owner's investor presentations (and posted a bit about that here). Occupancy rate is one measure of health, but since mall rents are typically tied to sales, sales per square foot are the most direct measure of mall health.
Triangle Town recently posted sales of $308 per foot -- just above the $300 level that usually signifies a failing mall, and way below the $665 at Crabtree or ~$575 at Southpoint reported in 2012.
As posted above, the owner has decided to give TTC back to the bank, listing it in a recent investor presentation as a "lender property," which is "in process with lender discussions for foreclosure."
So, whatever happens over the next few years will definitely be under new ownership.
Quote:
Originally Posted by cyn7cyn
I imagine the development of Wakefield proabably played a large part in developing the Mall . At one time that area was the future upscale Raleigh. Politics,recession, housing bust and a shift in urban housing drastically changed the proposed demographic of the capital blvd area.
Betting on Wakefield was a leap of faith -- and not one that I would have staked $200+ million on. (CBL still owes $171 million on TTC.) You don't develop a mall aiming at a "Triangle"-wide market out at one distant corner of the region, especially when the denser areas nearest you (i.e., Raleigh south of Millbrook) already have better and closer options. Yes, US 1 and NC 540 go past TTC, but the mall isn't really "on the way" for anyone within the Triangle -- just those in far northeast Wake and beyond.
Location: Sodo Sopa at The Villas above Kenny' s House.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by paytonc
I was pretty alarmed by how poorly Cary Towne Center was doing the last time I visited, so I dug up the owner's investor presentations (and posted a bit about that here). Occupancy rate is one measure of health, but since mall rents are typically tied to sales, sales per square foot are the most direct measure of mall health.
Triangle Town recently posted sales of $308 per foot -- just above the $300 level that usually signifies a failing mall, and way below the $665 at Crabtree or ~$575 at Southpoint reported in 2012.
As posted above, the owner has decided to give TTC back to the bank, listing it in a recent investor presentation as a "lender property," which is "in process with lender discussions for foreclosure."
So, whatever happens over the next few years will definitely be under new ownership.
Betting on Wakefield was a leap of faith -- and not one that I would have staked $200+ million on. (CBL still owes $171 million on TTC.) You don't develop a mall aiming at a "Triangle"-wide market out at one distant corner of the region, especially when the denser areas nearest you (i.e., Raleigh south of Millbrook) already have better and closer options. Yes, US 1 and NC 540 go past TTC, but the mall isn't really "on the way" for anyone within the Triangle -- just those in far northeast Wake and beyond.
Best post yet. We all have opinions but those numbers say it all. Now im motivated to find info about the mall proposal. What exactly was the original vision and compare it to the present reality.
TTC was a great place when it first opened and it could be again under new management ownership. I think it's just been left to stagnate over the years due to poor management and poor active marketing inovation.
Best post yet. We all have opinions but those numbers say it all. Now im motivated to find info about the mall proposal. What exactly was the original vision and compare it to the present reality.
AFAIK, they built what they planed on, though the exterior section did not fill in quite like they wanted and at least one large building there was never built (it is a small play field with artificial turn now) Of course, it was finished in 2002 IIRC so the planning and construction start was well prior to the recession of 2001 and September 11 attacks. Many of the areas directly surrounding it did not develop until a few years later than they probably expected and probably some of the land further out was delayed also.
Personally, I also think they just overestimated the market in that part of the metro and the near simultaneous building of Southpoint in Durham caused some people between them to go there regularly and its mix of non-anchors ended up being a bit better. The owners of Crabtree also are fully aware of the risks in losing their place as number 1 in the area and are wiling to do what it takes to try and remain there.
Location: Chapel Hill, NC, formerly NoVA and Phila
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Quote:
Originally Posted by paytonc
I was pretty alarmed by how poorly Cary Towne Center was doing the last time I visited, so I dug up the owner's investor presentations (and posted a bit about that here). Occupancy rate is one measure of health, but since mall rents are typically tied to sales, sales per square foot are the most direct measure of mall health.
Triangle Town recently posted sales of $308 per foot -- just above the $300 level that usually signifies a failing mall, and way below the $665 at Crabtree or ~$575 at Southpoint reported in 2012.
That's so interesting that you posted that information. I went walking at Southpoint yesterday (for exercise) and I was surprised how relatively empty is is for just 2 1/2 weeks before Christmas. It was busy, but not crazy busy, but I am used to shopping at Tysons Corner in Northern Virginia which is a zoo for weeks before Christmas. Based on what you wrote above, I just looked up the data for Tysons, and an article in 2013 put Tysons' $/sq. foot at $835 which wasn't even the highest for the DC area. I know this isn't related to the Triangle, but I literally came home from the mall yesterday and commented to my husband how it was so much less crowded than Tysons. The article also talks about dying malls.
Mini city is imo the area of capital blvd that starts right after the louisburg rd exit up to about the capital blvd/spring forest rd intersection. Basically any area within a mile of the 2 shopping centers there. The one with food lion,boston market,taco bell and across capital where the target used to be. Now there is a lowes,chick-fi-la,sams club..
Years ago I lived in several of the apartment complexes and it was a large percentage of hispanic workers. They used to call it little mexico. During the construction slump alot of those guys moved on. Needless to say the apartments had lost alot of value and began accepting section 8 and lower standards in order to attract tenants. There was a glut of empty apartments that basically were filled with anyone they could get. The area is on the bus line,close to ammenities and centrally located so it quickly became full again but this time it was a different crowd. More families especially. Usually thats a good thing. Over there,not so much. With families you have teens. Being that a majority of these teens lived in homes that dont value education,they had lots of free time on their hands. There is tension between young AA and hispanic males which resulted in growing gang activity. The crime in that area is mostly wayward teens and some older knuckleheads breaking into cars,homes,shop lifting etc...The worst one in my opinion is the robberies done in apartment parking lots. Several hold ups in Brentwood apartments over the years. Brentwood isnt exactly mini city but it is within a mile of it. Nasty horrible place infested with bed bugs,roaches and black mold. dont get me started on how the owners of that place get away with it.
People use mini city as a reference to Raleighs decline often. When it was new in the 80's it was the nice part of raleigh. It was called.mini city because of the housing,shopping and soccer parks in that area. Even though it was still mostly apartments it was yuppies living there and soccer moms taking their kids to practice. Brentwood subdivision was a well respected,established neighborhood that used the ammenities too. Its really a shame.what happened to the whole entire area because of irresponsible city planning and greed.
Much appreciated. I was thinking it was around that area. Capital is just... ugh. For a strip, it does have some gritty character... as any aging strip worth its salt should.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JayJayCB
Kinda random, but has anyone visited that tiny little mall/outlet in Morrisville? I went a few years back and it was the deadest mall I've been to in my life, wouldn't be surprised if it's closed by now. Same with South Hills Plaza in Cary. I went in there for the first time a few months back, and it seemed so dead and dated to me.
I miss that mall... they had a Neiman Marcus out there that had decent prices that I liked.
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