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You can not say you are supportive of LGBT rights, yet defend a policy that expressly prohibits "promotion, affirmation, and discussion" of homosexuality.
edit: not going to reply to any more of these - apologies to the mods for derailing the thread.
Not sure how to say this, but is it possible that you are being overly sensitive and taking the language out of context? There are Thales families that are stating that they are supportive of the LGBT community and they have not seen any indication of a bias at the school.
FWIW, why would a person who is gay have to "promote, discuss or affirm" their sexual preference?
I'm with chickenbot, I wouldn't feel comfortable sending my child to a school where it was against school policy to have a gay-straight alliance or other support group. That's just a no go in my book. I think it's good to know where Thales stands on it.
Back to the OP, a child could get into the elite universities like Harvard, Yale, MIT, Stanford, etc, from a public school in the US. I don't know how university admission works for ex-pats, but here's a story on a 2014 Rhodes scholar who will be attending Oxford (one of 32 in the US) from Chapel Hill, grad of East Chapel Hill High (public school) : East Chapel Hill HS Alum Named 2014 Rhodes Scholar - Chapelboro.com . I know folks who have their kids in private school, in charter schools, in public school, and who homeschool. I even know some who do virtual school (online). I have several friends who are British, but none of them went with private schools. One went with charters, one with public, one with homeschooling.
I get the impression that the way the school systems (both public and private) are set up here is fairly different than in the UK. By far, most people, and most excellent students in the US attend public schools. There are just way, way more public schools than private.
People send their kids to private schools for a variety of reasons. A lot of folks like religious schools. Some live in areas with public schools that aren't that great and choose private schools for a better quality of education. We had our kids in private school early on because our older daughter had problems with anxiety and needed a smaller setting. There are a few people that choose private in our area because they feel that will be more academically challenging, but I don't think that's the main reason most people choose private around here. The public school systems are usually able to offer accelerated AP or IB courses that challenge most smart/driven kids. The exceptionally talented kids can apply to the NC School of Math & Science, a merit-based, residential/boarding school in Durham. Even outside the Triangle growing up in a less academically inclined region I still went to public high school with kids that went on to Harvard.
In Raleigh, consider applying to Raleigh Charter for high school. It's a public school, but admission is lottery based and like all charters is independent of local school systems (not a part of Wake County Public School System). It's one of the highest achieving schools in the state, but very hard to get into. Ravenscroft, Durham Academy, Cardinal Gibbons are all private schools with good reputations.
This thread seems to haqve turned from a generic question about private schools into "let's talk about how conservative Thales Academy is"--back to OP's question:
What is your budget? I think most private schools charge a "new student fee" the first time on top of tuition, and the tuition goes up slightly for each grade (i.e. 4th grade costs a little more than 3rd grade). At the very least, I'm pretty sure Middle School is more than Lower School, and Upper School (most private schools seem to use that instead of "High School") even more--which makes sense if you consider the cost of labs, more depth of subject matter, etc.
As for skipping grades, in the US I think that is rarely done as much as it used to be; it's more common for people to hold back their kids entering Kindergarten for a year based on developmental/social issues, boys in particular. Once someone is in school, it's rare that they would skip a grade, and I've never heard of it happening more than once for the same kid. Since you're coming in from a different country, whatever assessment they on your child might result in his being placed a grade higher than before, but after that, I think it's unlikely that he'd skip any grades in the future.
I went to Ravenscroft and it's a wonderful school--granted I went over 30 years ago (when it was much cheaper!) but I keep up via alumni communications. Cary Academy is also very highly ranked, and a little closer to Morrisville. Durham Academy, also good, perhaps a farther drive. Might be a tad cheaper than the other two? You'd be doing find at any of the 3, no worries. There are also smaller ones like St Timothy's, technically Episcopal but I think very hands-off on the religion thing other than they might still have "chapel" every day which is generic Christian, not hard-wing indoctrination. Lots of kids go there in the youngest grades, or at least used to.
I confess that I grew up in Raleigh and my points of reference could be out of date.
Having just re-railed this thread back to the topic of all private schools, I cannot let this go by.
Quote:
Originally Posted by theS5
Not sure how to say this, but is it possible that you are being overly sensitive and taking the language out of context? There are Thales families that are stating that they are supportive of the LGBT community and they have not seen any indication of a bias at the school.
One can be "supportive" of a segment of the population but not notice subtle discrimination against them. The politically-correct term for this is "privilege", similar to how white people never notice the small indignities a black person faces every day, no matter how non-racist the white person is.
How would it be to have a policy that states that "promoting, discussing or affirming" one's non-Christian religion was banned? Would that be discriminatory?
Quote:
FWIW, why would a person who is gay have to "promote, discuss or affirm" their sexual preference?
Why do heterosexuals feel the need to do so? I hope you realize that a heterosexual talking about her impending wedding is considered a joyous thing, while a gay person talking about his (same-sex) wedding or even just mentioning his partner would be considered "promoting, discussing or affirming". It's a severe double standard that when a gay person mentions mundane things that straight people talk about 10 times a day, they are suddenly accused of "promoting and flaunting" a "lifestyle". It's precisely that kind of language that is usually used in gay-unfriendly environments to quash any open discussion of the issue one way or the other. Usually in a school context, it means that if homosexuality comes up in health class, a teacher can be forbidden to state that a certain percentage of people are gay and that's just the way it is ("discussing", "affirming"). And "affirming" could simply be taken as a person answering that they are gay, when directly asked. Very dangerous language that leaves the door open for all manners of bias.
I completely agree with your perspective--thanks for posting this.
Our experience has been that most Thales families are comfortable with other families coming from different perspectives. If fact, I know of a couple of families who have left Thales partly because they were disappointed there is not an explicit conservative bent to the curriculum at the school. I particularly keep an eye on the school's science curriculum and I have been very happy that there has been nothing objectionable (i.e., creationism, climate change denial, etc.)
There are a very large number of non-Judeo-Christian families at Thales in Apex, including our family.
I have children in Thales and so far we have been very happy with their academic experience. (Though I totally agree that their handbook and LGBT policy is inappropriate and should be changed to demonstrate a supportive and embracing attitude towards everyone)!
As my children get older, I've been doing some research to determine how Thales dovetails its conservative/religious foundation with the teaching of science. They don't discuss the topic anywhere in their literature so I reached out to both the principal of the Rolesville JH/HS as well as the director of development in order to get some specific answers to how they handled this potential conflict.
Unfortunately, they were not nearly as forthcoming as I would have hoped, though they were consistent in their messaging and seemed like they were trying to be helpful. To the question about the teaching of evolution, this was the answer I received - "We teach the evolution of diseases and other species, but not the evolution of human beings". I'm not really sure what this means, but when I asked for more specifics on how this broad stroke omission would impact the day to day content and what is and is not covered in the classroom, it seemed clear that they either had never thought about it or had no intention of divulging the details.
It seems to me that leaving out a critical part of the scientific explanation of our past would cause problems. For example, are they able to clearly discuss the impact of the fossil record and geological formations on our understanding of the past, or do they alter the topic in order to avoid discussing human evolution? Also, how do they sidestep talking about how and why humans evolved from apes when discussing other species evolution? Do they discuss the importance of Charles Darwin's contribution to our understanding of our world? What if students ask questions about human evolution? What if they want to do a paper or an assignment on evolution, how is that handled? To me, the devil is in the details. What are they having to leave out or stifle in order to compensate for their choice to avoid discussing human evolution? But unfortunately, I still don't know the answers.
For now I am watching and waiting to see how this content is actually taught in the classroom. Hopefully this will all be for nothing and their science teachers will be true to traditional non-religious curriculum and cover it in its entirety. But, if it turns out that the school does alter, avoid or manipulate the teaching of science in order to accommodate their religious views, then we will likely be forced to look elsewhere. And if that is the case, it would have been very useful if the school had provided parents with full disclosure prior to their enrollment so that parents can make informed decisions.
However, I would like to ask that if any of you feel that preserving the integrity of science is important to your child's education and your children are enrolled in Thales or even if you're considering Thales, please speak up to the school and let them know how you feel. It is the only way they will get the message.
You can not say you are supportive of LGBT rights, yet defend a policy that expressly prohibits "promotion, affirmation, and discussion" of homosexuality.
edit: not going to reply to any more of these - apologies to the mods for derailing the thread.
Yes I absolutely am supportive of LGBT rights. You are making massive assumptions about how that policy translates to practice at the school, without any firsthand knowledge of day to day life at the school. Those assumptions influence the impressions others have of the school. If I had read a post like yours back when we were first considering Thales, we might have been needlessly scared away. Then we would have missed out on a great fit for our kids who, incidentally, are being raised to strongly support LGBT rights, just like many other kids at Thales.
Yes I absolutely am supportive of LGBT rights. You are making massive assumptions about how that policy translates to practice at the school, without any firsthand knowledge of day to day life at the school. Those assumptions influence the impressions others have of the school. If I had read a post like yours back when we were first considering Thales, we might have been needlessly scared away. Then we would have missed out on a great fit for our kids who, incidentally, are being raised to strongly support LGBT rights, just like many other kids at Thales.
Further, how many of us have read all the terms and conditions or user agreements of the products and services we use daily, like Facebook, cell phones, or even internet providers? I would not be surprised if there was at least one offensive or disagreeable thing in just about every user agreement (written or implied) that we must accept in order to use said product or service. If we were to be rigidly stoic in our principles (an admirable quality for sure, but not a realistic one in most of daily life) we would most likely have to live as hermits in the mountains, off the grid and completely lonely in order to fulfill our moral guidelines. Sadly, there is fine print everywhere, and we often have to take the 99% good with the 1% bad in order to have any semblance of a normal life.
Do I think Thales is perfect? Not by any means. Nor are any of the others. Do I support LGBT rights? Yes, 1000%. But my daughter is still there and, given all of my choices on the market, both private and public, Thales still wins. In my experience the staff is very professional, friendly, and caring. I would actually be surprised to see discriminatory behavior from any of the people (staff and parents) that I've met so far. Not that it can't happen, but it would surprise me.
I do think clarification of the policy might be worthwhile, but as kbmnola said, if there isn't actually discrimination happening, it's not as important as many other issues that could be of more consequence to a student's actual daily life at school (such as some of the science mentioned above, as one example).
I know this is getting off topic but mods, would you be able to separate out this discussion and maybe give it an appropriate title so that we can continue this discussion in public for not only ourselves but others who either go or are considering going to Thales?
There is a ton of false information in your post. Thales is completely NON profit. Core instruction at Thales is completely based on differentiated instruction--kids in the elementary school are put into math and reading classes that match their abilities. Yes, tuition is low, but the Thales buildings and grounds are very simple, there are no sports facilities, there is a very small administrative staff, etc. Decisions like this translate into much lower operating costs for Thales. Thales isn't for everyone, but in terms of its academic quality, it is completely in line with any other private school in the area.
I don't think any school, save for maybe a place like Phillips Exeter, can say it is a "feeder school" for the Ivies. I also don't think all that many students from Cary Academy and Durham Academy go on to Ivies--not because they can't, but because there are so many other awesome options out there. That said, I went to a highly selective college (Swarthmore), and I can say with full confidence that my daughters' education at Thales will prepare them fully and make them excellent candidates for a highly selective college if that's the kind of school they'd like to attend. There are many other families at Thales in a similar situation.
You can't have truly differentiated instruction with direct instruction. They may have a couple different levels of direct instruction but that's not the same as differentiated.
Also, there is a lot more to the process of college selection than simply test scores. The college counseling departments in these higher end schools spend a ton of time developing relationships with the desirable colleges. There are tons of bright kids in the US and only a fraction of them make it into the high end schools. It's about who you know and the feeder schools make it their job to know the right people. It's partially what they are paying for, in addition to a quality education that is very geared toward their specific child.
I have children in Thales and so far we have been very happy with their academic experience. (Though I totally agree that their handbook and LGBT policy is inappropriate and should be changed to demonstrate a supportive and embracing attitude towards everyone)!
As my children get older, I've been doing some research to determine how Thales dovetails its conservative/religious foundation with the teaching of science. They don't discuss the topic anywhere in their literature so I reached out to both the principal of the Rolesville JH/HS as well as the director of development in order to get some specific answers to how they handled this potential conflict.
Unfortunately, they were not nearly as forthcoming as I would have hoped, though they were consistent in their messaging and seemed like they were trying to be helpful. To the question about the teaching of evolution, this was the answer I received - "We teach the evolution of diseases and other species, but not the evolution of human beings". I'm not really sure what this means, but when I asked for more specifics on how this broad stroke omission would impact the day to day content and what is and is not covered in the classroom, it seemed clear that they either had never thought about it or had no intention of divulging the details.
It seems to me that leaving out a critical part of the scientific explanation of our past would cause problems. For example, are they able to clearly discuss the impact of the fossil record and geological formations on our understanding of the past, or do they alter the topic in order to avoid discussing human evolution? Also, how do they sidestep talking about how and why humans evolved from apes when discussing other species evolution? Do they discuss the importance of Charles Darwin's contribution to our understanding of our world? What if students ask questions about human evolution? What if they want to do a paper or an assignment on evolution, how is that handled? To me, the devil is in the details. What are they having to leave out or stifle in order to compensate for their choice to avoid discussing human evolution? But unfortunately, I still don't know the answers.
For now I am watching and waiting to see how this content is actually taught in the classroom. Hopefully this will all be for nothing and their science teachers will be true to traditional non-religious curriculum and cover it in its entirety. But, if it turns out that the school does alter, avoid or manipulate the teaching of science in order to accommodate their religious views, then we will likely be forced to look elsewhere. And if that is the case, it would have been very useful if the school had provided parents with full disclosure prior to their enrollment so that parents can make informed decisions.
However, I would like to ask that if any of you feel that preserving the integrity of science is important to your child's education and your children are enrolled in Thales or even if you're considering Thales, please speak up to the school and let them know how you feel. It is the only way they will get the message.
I completely agree. I also keep a close eye out for this particular issue. My kids are still in elementary school, so I haven't noticed anything remotely concerning in the elementary science curriculum. I am also comfortable with what I've heard about the junior high science curriculum from families of junior high kids. The high school is very small, so it remains to be seen how things will develop as it expands. But I can't imagine the school alienating a huge proportion of the school's families by taking the science curriculum in the direction of creationism. Also, the school very much wants its students to do well on standardized tests and I can't imagine they would structure the curriculum so that students are left with a gaping hole in their knowledge of science.
Having just re-railed this thread back to the topic of all private schools, I cannot let this go by.
One can be "supportive" of a segment of the population but not notice subtle discrimination against them. The politically-correct term fro this is "privilege", similar to how white people never notice the small indignities a black person faces every day, no matter how non-racist the white person is.
How would it be to have a policy that states that "promoting, discussing or affirming" one's non-Christian religion was banned? Would that be discriminatory?
Why do heterosexuals feel the need to do so? I hope you realize that a heterosexual talking about her impending wedding is considered a joyous thing, while a gay person talking about his (same-sex) wedding or even just mentioning his partner would be considered "promoting, discussing or affirming". It's a severe double standard that when a gay person mentions mundane things that straight people talk about 10 times a day, they are suddenly accused of "promoting and flaunting" a "lifestyle". It's precisely that kind of language that is usually used in gay-unfriendly environments to quash any open discussion of the issue one way or the other. Usually in a school context, it means that if homosexuality comes up in health class, a teacher can be forbidden to state that a certain percentage of people are gay and that's just the way it is ("discussing", "affirming"). And "affirming" could simply be taken as a person answering that they are gay, when directly asked. Very dangerous language that leaves the door open for all manners of bias.
I'm not disputing what you are saying, for the most part.
I don't feel that a hetero sexual feels the need to affirm their sexuality, at least in the context that you mention above. At the same time, I don't think many of your points relate to this situation. The context of the policy is anti-bullying. There are Thales parents on this board who have mentioned that they have not seen or felt any discrimination within the school and, if they had, they would show their disapproval by taking their kids out of the school.
I think you are implying that a person affirming that they are gay would be grounds for dismissal according to the context of the text. I don't see anything there that makes that leap.
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Science Curriculum
