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I am not generally inclined to create new threads, but this time I couldn't resist.
Greg Hatem, a developer who helped rebuild downtown Raleigh, now claims that it's unlivable -- the noise, the drunks, the trash. Although he is quick to absolve *his* establishments (which serve alcohol) of contributing to the problem.
He says he just can't take it anymore, so he's moving his family from Fayetteville St. to Oakwood.
I am going to take a wild guess and suggest that if he didn't live on Fayetteville St. downtown's "issues" wouldn't be quite so high on his radar. And the fact that he helped create the "issues," just make it that much more comical.
Yeah, just read the article. I think hypocrite is a proper description, especially about the part that mentions that he once had the same type of permit that claims make the area unlivable.
Have you ever met this guy? Believe me, he is a very competent adult. Anything he says about downtown should be listened to respectfully and taken seriously.
It's time for some of our downtown boosters to grow up. Hatem seems to understand this. Civic leaders have put far too much emphasis on bars, restaurants, and loud low-brow music. Glenwood South is a prime example. Any city that prides itself on a bar district has some significant problems brewing. Real people who have to work for a living need some separation from loudmouth, late-night drunks out "having a good time" trashing neighborhoods, littering and urinating wherever they please.
Real people who have to work for a living need some separation from loudmouth, late-night drunks out "having a good time" trashing neighborhoods, littering and urinating wherever they please.
I honestly can't remember one instance of seeing someone urinate on Fayetteville st, or surrounding streets like Hargett or Martin. Not to say that it's never happened, but it's not exactly a common occurrence. Also, couldn't these "real people" find their separation from the bars by simply not going to them after midnight?
I found the quote in the article about people "partying in the street" to be particularly rich, since the most crowded sidewalk in downtown is outside of Raleigh Times during the warm weather months.
I think it is reasonable to have some opposition to the open-air playing of amplified music. I think the idea of "opening doors" where the music is generated inside is, by itself, a reasonable request. I think outside amplified music until certain hours (likely 11 pm IMO) is reasonable as well.
But RT shouldn't be allowed to situate an amplified band on their rooftop and play music until 2 am. I'm no sound engineer either, so if noise travels up better, Landmark shouldn't be allowed to go to their back patio and amplify music after midnight either.
Of course, there is also a reason for the stereotype of most downtowns as being a cool place to live in your 20's and then you move to the suburbs in your 30's to raise your kids.
I think what Mr. Hatem was getting at (and I happen to agree with him) is there are a lot of folks acting irresponsibly and making things needlessly difficult for all the stakeholders in the area.
There's a big difference between going out for dinner, drinks and laughs and being disrespectful to the area hosting your good time. If you're walking about downtown or Glenwood on a Saturday or Sunday morning and don't see were people have urinated, vomited, left trash, broken glass, condoms and God knows what else then you're not paying much attention. Same goes for the juvenile screaming and yelling that happens while folks are traversing around. In short, and at the risk of this being taken wrong, y'all aren't very good drunks.
Did I choose to live in a party district. Yup, gladly so. No different than setting up shop near an airport or any other nuisance, you pays your quarter, you takes your chances. But by the same token it doesn't mean that a pilot should be buzzing a neighborhood for $hits and grins.
I don't think it's too much to ask or that much of a burden to simply show the slightest amount of respect to your neighbors, even if it's not YOUR neighborhood.
BTW - This is really all I plan on saying about the subject. Just a simple, heartfelt request to be slightly civil to those around you. If you want to engage in some dustup about overserving, property rights and selection, personal freedom, etc. etc. Great knock yourselves out...
What's happening in DT is Raleigh is a very typical pattern of urban renewal. Renewal almost always starts with entertainment. Raleigh is full-blown (and arguably saturating) the entertainment phase. Next comes housing, which Raleigh is "all-in" at the moment. The next thing that comes is retail and services. All of these aspects will find their balance in the coming years and will learn to coexist.
I find it hilarious that there are still people in Raleigh who think that DT is dead and nobody goes there while others are complaining about how it's getting out of hand.
When I first purchased DT in the 90s, I was betting on its future and am very happy to see it finally meeting my expectations of 20 years ago. The last thing that I want to do is kill the energy.
Hatem is not going very far. He's still going to be walkable to the very core of the city. I don't know if his move is influenced by the noise alone or by the fact that he has a family. While I am big proponents of families in DT, I am not sure that Fayetteville Street would be my first choice among the options.
Lastly, how much of his complaining is linked to his concern that other businesses will take away from his customer base????
Also, couldn't these "real people" find their separation from the bars by simply not going to them after midnight?
The problem is that the noise comes to you, whether you want it or not.
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