Why such price differences - West Cary and rest of Cary/Morrisville (Raleigh: transplants, countertops)
Raleigh, Durham, Chapel Hill, CaryThe Triangle Area
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It would seem to me that paying a premium on a home because its new is a financial time-bomb. Not only will the house not be new for very long, but if schools in one area are truly better than any other, it is largely because of the quality of the educators. Since elementary through high school educators are in a relatively low-paying profession, it is unlikely that they would stay close to an area where the cost of living is going up faster than surrounding areas, and they aren't likely to want to move farther away and increase their commute. This means that they would either move into other professions or other school districts.
There's nothing preventing the good schools of today to being mediocre schools of tomorrow. Tragically bad reason to pay more for a home.
The schools are good and most of them can buy a gigantic, brand-new house for what it used to cost them to buy a dinky, old one where they came from.
What you call dinky and old I call "character". Who ever thought that housing could get more bland, homogenous, and unimaginative than mid century Ranch sure had a surprise coming.
It would seem to me that paying a premium on a home because its new is a financial time-bomb. Not only will the house not be new for very long, but if schools in one area are truly better than any other, it is largely because of the quality of the educators. Since elementary through high school educators are in a relatively low-paying profession, it is unlikely that they would stay close to an area where the cost of living is going up faster than surrounding areas, and they aren't likely to want to move farther away and increase their commute. This means that they would either move into other professions or other school districts.
There's nothing preventing the good schools of today to being mediocre schools of tomorrow. Tragically bad reason to pay more for a home.
What you call dinky and old I call "character". Who ever thought that housing could get more bland, homogenous, and unimaginative than mid century Ranch sure had a surprise coming.
I like dinky, old houses.
But, the Future Land Barons (TM) who want to move here don't.
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Location: Chapel Hill, NC, formerly NoVA and Phila
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smokijoo
It would seem to me that paying a premium on a home because its new is a financial time-bomb. Not only will the house not be new for very long, but if schools in one area are truly better than any other, it is largely because of the quality of the educators. Since elementary through high school educators are in a relatively low-paying profession, it is unlikely that they would stay close to an area where the cost of living is going up faster than surrounding areas, and they aren't likely to want to move farther away and increase their commute. This means that they would either move into other professions or other school districts.
There's nothing preventing the good schools of today to being mediocre schools of tomorrow. Tragically bad reason to pay more for a home.
I agree with you that new homes don't stay new for long. But as for schools - whether School A is truly better than School B is immaterial to homebuyers. What really matters to homebuyers is the PERCEPTION that School A is better than School B. And I disagree with you to some extent that it's the quality of educators that make the school. Yes, that is part of it, but the bigger part is the students who go there. Test scores are positively correlated with income as well as parents' education. Find me a neighborhood that is high income and highly educated, and I'll find mostly 'good' schools. Find me a neighborhood that is low income and less educated, and I'll find mostly 'bad' schools. 'Good' and 'bad' schools equals test scores, and that is the most objective and quickest way that parents judge schools.
I do think in higher income neighborhoods, there is a louder parental voice and demand to get rid of unproductive teachers to the extent that they are able, and to that end there are probably more high-quality teachers in high-income areas than in low-income ones, but I don't think that is the driving factor behind a school's reputation.
It's rare that a school goes from being a GREAT school to becoming a POOR one very quickly or for the long-term, unless the neighborhood that feeds it turns over from high income to low income. (In the short run, a poor principal could affect a school's rep. but again that usually doesn't last long in higher income neighborhoods and doesn't affect test scores that much.)
Having only lived here for 3 years and not knowing the perceived quality of the schools over the years, I'll take a stab in the dark and say Chapel Hill schools have always been higher performing on test scores and perceived to better than Durham schools, and that will continue to be true unless the population changes significantly (becomes higher income/lower income) in either place.
ETA: Having said all that, I do not know the answer to the OP's question, not being intimately familiar with either place. But when I read the question, my immediate thought was "location and schools" which are the universal drivers all over this country for real estate prices.
As a teacher, I totally agree with michgc that most parents want the " perception" that school A is better than school B and that it's totally about the " kind" of kids that make up the student population of a school ( e.g., upper class white kids). Which is where greatschools.com and similar sites enter the picture.
Mostly every teacher( not all..but most) I know is a dedicated " good" teacher that gives 105% to their students... Whether it be in white bread cary or minority based Selma in joco. All teach the same curriculum and have basically the same teaching materials. The few teachers I know that aren't totally dedicated again come from both white bread cary and low rating schools in inner city or rural areas.
As with houses, mailing address, cars and clothes these days...it's all about image and bragging rights, IMO.
I agree with you that new homes don't stay new for long. But as for schools - whether School A is truly better than School B is immaterial to homebuyers. What really matters to homebuyers is the PERCEPTION that School A is better than School B. And I disagree with you to some extent that it's the quality of educators that make the school. Yes, that is part of it, but the bigger part is the students who go there. Test scores are positively correlated with income as well as parents' education. Find me a neighborhood that is high income and highly educated, and I'll find mostly 'good' schools. Find me a neighborhood that is low income and less educated, and I'll find mostly 'bad' schools. 'Good' and 'bad' schools equals test scores, and that is the most objective and quickest way that parents judge schools.
I do think in higher income neighborhoods, there is a louder parental voice and demand to get rid of unproductive teachers to the extent that they are able, and to that end there are probably more high-quality teachers in high-income areas than in low-income ones, but I don't think that is the driving factor behind a school's reputation.
It's rare that a school goes from being a GREAT school to becoming a POOR one very quickly or for the long-term, unless the neighborhood that feeds it turns over from high income to low income. (In the short run, a poor principal could affect a school's rep. but again that usually doesn't last long in higher income neighborhoods and doesn't affect test scores that much.)
Having only lived here for 3 years and not knowing the perceived quality of the schools over the years, I'll take a stab in the dark and say Chapel Hill schools have always been higher performing on test scores and perceived to better than Durham schools, and that will continue to be true unless the population changes significantly (becomes higher income/lower income) in either place.
ETA: Having said all that, I do not know the answer to the OP's question, not being intimately familiar with either place. But when I read the question, my immediate thought was "location and schools" which are the universal drivers all over this country for real estate prices.
Regarding your point, speaking in general terms weakens your position; my wife and I were worried about our children going to good schools. We didn't care if one school had slightly better test scores than another, but we certainly cared about a schools overall performance. As we were new to the area, perception did not enter into the equation for us (still doesn't as we're trying to convince our son that staying at UNC-G may be better for him than transferring to UNC-CH).
Location: Chapel Hill, NC, formerly NoVA and Phila
9,767 posts, read 15,737,428 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NYC2RDU
Regarding your point, speaking in general terms weakens your position; my wife and I were worried about our children going to good schools. We didn't care if one school had slightly better test scores than another, but we certainly cared about a schools overall performance. As we were new to the area, perception did not enter into the equation for us (still doesn't as we're trying to convince our son that staying at UNC-G may be better for him than transferring to UNC-CH).
When I say "perception" I mean what the parents' perceive to be the better school, which may or may not include the school's reputation. So, for someone who has lived here for a long time, a school's reputation may mean something and factor into the equation, while for someone new to the area to whom school names don't mean anything, it might mean just test scores and ratings on online sites or info. from discussion boards. Speaking in general terms doesn't weaken my position, because home values would be in general terms, too. There's always the one house that is worth more than the others or the one bad school in a good neighborhood, but overall, how schools fare overall on test scores has a huge impact on desirability which translates into higher home prices overall. Insignificant differences between test scores don't make a huge difference in desirability.
I agree that test scores aren't the be all and end all, but unless you know a school's overall performance, test scores matter - a lot - especially to newcomers. While there are other factors that make a school "good," test scores are the easiest to identify and use for comparison. To your point that you don't care if test scores are slightly better at one school than another, I agree. When given a choice between School A with an 80% passing rate on state test scores versus School B with a 76% passing rate and School C with a 45% passing rate, most people looking for "good" schools won't care whether they get into School A or School B but would never choose School C, so I wouldn't expect much difference in home values between School A district and School B district, with all else about the location and homes being equal.
And while there are some families who would not want their child to go into "the best" school for personal reasons - there is too much pressure, kid has anxiety, he isn't a book scholar, etc. that does change the "best" school's reputation nor its home prices. It will always still be in demand. Not everyone wants their kid to go to East Chapel Hill High for some of the above reasons, but there will always be more than enough families who do. Just like you wanting your child to stay at UNC-G doesn't make UNC-CH any less desirable to the outside world, even if it's not a good fit for your kid.
When we were buying two years ago, we zoned in on West Cary. Most of the new construction and resale in Morrisville/Cary was under the flight path. We tried staying outside and we couldn't take the noise. We couldn't find a layout that we like in Cary with good schools (Davis Dr area) as most of them were older houses, we wanted an open layout and an energy saver home. The schools near downtown Cary weren't that great so we scratched it off out list.
With West Cary it's closer to 540 and it's easier to go to Downtown Raleigh/Durham.
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