1st degree murder charges in hit-and-run (Raleigh, Cary: transfer, middle school, live in)
Raleigh, Durham, Chapel Hill, CaryThe Triangle Area
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But my understanding is that they did not commit a felony. They didn't even purchase drugs, they committed misdemeanor larceny (under $500). I have not seen where violence or intimidation was used as part of the actual theft (only after the larceny victim assaulted the driver which makes that portion of it self defense).
Wheelsup is right. A very sick world we live in.
Thankfully these charges aren't "real". They are set unrealistically high as negotiating rates only. Dealing with legal charges is like haggling over rug prices at a Turkish bizarre. The initial charges aren't necessarily the ones they have a realistic chance of conviction, but if they set the bar high they can use them to get better testimony. If they start out with realistic charges its harder to say "ok we'll reduce the charge in exchange for testimony".
If they pulled out money to pay for drugs, then decided to steal drugs, I doubt anyone is going to say "oh... well, stealing them when you were in the process of buying them is totally okay."
I hope the driver is convicted of murder, even if it is reduced to 2nd degree. I say this based on the fact that hit and run is a pretty major deal. And, she would not have been inside his vehicle window if he wasn't trying to steal from him, so he's no better citizen than she is.
The passengers didn't kill her, so I think they'll all roll on him to keep from going to jail.
I mean, how hard would it have been for him to stop the damned truck and dial 911?
If she died then, I'd say he tried to save her and I figure he'd get manslaughter and theft, no?
Which, yes... he did those things.
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I am not seeing this 70/30 thing that smokijoo is seeing, but hey... that's what the courts are for.
The 70/30 is really just my opinion, but if it's the opinion of even one juror then you can see where that will go.
Honestly I would be fine if most people would just call it a 50/50 wash instead of simply overlooking the very dangerous circumstances the victim placed herself and others in.
As I said though, the hit and run is a whole different level. Unless there was curb or something that could have accounted for the feeling of running over something, giving even the shadow of a doubt that the driver might not have known she was hit, then taking off and leaving someone to die is a serious charge for the driver of the truck.
If they pulled out money to pay for drugs, then decided to steal drugs, I doubt anyone is going to say "oh... well, stealing them when you were in the process of buying them is totally okay."
I hope the driver is convicted of murder, even if it is reduced to 2nd degree. I say this based on the fact that hit and run is a pretty major deal. And, she would not have been inside his vehicle window if he wasn't trying to steal from him, so he's no better citizen than she is.
The passengers didn't kill her, so I think they'll all roll on him to keep from going to jail.
I mean, how hard would it have been for him to stop the damned truck and dial 911?
If she died then, I'd say he tried to save her and I figure he'd get manslaughter and theft, no?
Which, yes... he did those things.
As I said the hit and run is a whole different charge, but it's still not worth labeling murder or talking about the death penalty. Involuntary manslaughter for the driver of the truck at very worst.
But, we should not confuse the hit and run issue with all of the other issues involved here.
It should be noted that people often get freaked out in the event of an accident and don't stop their vehicles due to the panic attack / shock that ensues. That alone may not even be worth the involuntary manslaughter possibility. For all we know there's a chance he didn't know she was seriously injured (I agree that seems unlikely but that part of the story isn't known).
Whatever happened to innocent until proven guilty? Many here already have them lined up for the death penalty without knowing all the facts. Nice.
Every time the word "murder" is thrown around carelessly like this, the severity of the crime gets diminished and it no longer carries as much weight when we DO need to charge someone (appropriately) with it. Cry wolf too often and folks get desensitized to the concept and stop responding when you need them to.
The type of drug being sold does not make a drug transaction less risky. Anyone old enough to sell the drugs has heard how frequently drug deals go bad.
This particular incident was not really a classic "drug deal gone bad" scenario. It was more like mischievous teenagers gone bad. None of the teenagers involved were at the high end of the criminal ladder.
But that does not reduce her responsibility for everything that happened, including the primary mistake that lead to death (jumping on a moving vehicle).
That's one of those fundamental "dont run with scissors" and "dont play in a busy street" type of things that most parents teach their kid not to do at a very early age.
Take away the drug aspect of the scenario and leave everything else -- she still comes out dead.
Take away the jump on a moving truck aspect of the scenario and leave the drugs -- she would still be alive.
Those last two statements prove my point conclusively.
What makes a person "old enough to sell drugs?"
Come on. Teenagers have lousy impulse control most of the time.
And, they generally think that they're invincible. I doubt she thought that she would wind up deal selling a little pot to some kids from neighboring high schools who lived nearby.
I still haven't seen evidence that she jumped on the vehicle AFTER it was going any faster than a slow roll, so let's not pretend she took a dive at a car going 45mph or something.
And, if you take out the drug aspect and leave everything else, the driver of that pickup still left the scene of an accident that he was at least partially responsible for that left this 16yo girl dead.
So... yeah. I am thinking the driver will more than be held accountable.
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As I said the hit and run is a whole different charge, but it's still not murder. Involuntary manslaughter for the driver of the truck at very worst.
But, we should not confuse the hit and run issue with all of the other issues involved here.
Why not? It seems he did hit her and he did leave the scene.
And, if she was hanging on his car and he knew he might harm her and didn't stop, I am thinking he will get more than involuntary manslaughter. It sounds quite voluntary at the moment. He could have stopped the car.
I haven't heard reports that she was armed or threatening. Just that she wanted to be paid for the pot she was providing. I'm not in favor of selling drugs, but come on... you sell ANYTHING in this world and you expect to be paid instead of robbed, no?
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As I said the hit and run is a whole different charge, but it's still not worth labeling murder or talking about the death penalty. Involuntary manslaughter for the driver of the truck at very worst.
But, we should not confuse the hit and run issue with all of the other issues involved here.
It should be noted that people often get freaked out in the event of an accident and don't stop. That alone may not even be worth the involuntary manslaughter possibility. For all we know there's a chance he didn't know she was seriously injured (I agree that seems unlikely but that part of the story isn't known).
Whatever happened to innocent until proven guilty? Many here already have them lined up for the death penalty without knowing all the facts. Nice.
Every time the word "murder" is thrown around carelessly like this, the severity of the crime gets diminished and it no longer carries as much weight when we DO need to charge someone (appropriately) with it. Cry wolf too often and folks get desensitized to the concept and stop responding when you need them to.
We don't know why they were charged the way they were charged. There may well be evidence that isn't being provided to news outlets.
I do agree that they tend to charge for the worst, and lawyers bargain it down to the best.
I'll just let the courts decide. I don't know any of the kids involved, but I do know that one of them is dead and the other 4 have done major damage to their lives.
And that's a damned shame over a little bag of pot.
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Why not? It seems he did hit her and he did leave the scene.
I don't think you followed what I said -- I didn't say we should ignore the hit and run aspect, I'm saying that hit and run is a crime in itself (and a serious one). But, it is still not intentional hit and run. There is nothing to indicate they planned to run her over at the park. Therefore, the death itself is an accident and the hit and run is a negligent act. As far as we know, saving her life was not a possibility after she was hit. Fleeing the scene of an accident is a serious crime REGARDLESS of whether someone is hurt or not. In this case she was hurt because of a very bad decision SHE made -- to jump on a moving vehicle. She made an extremely bad decision that lead to her death. So, leaving the scene of the accident is not the same as being responsible for her death. It would be if she stood a chance of living, but from what they are saying so far it would not have mattered if he stopped and called 911 or not. So he is guilty of hit and run. Hit and run is not the same as murder. That was my point.
Quote:
Originally Posted by RedZin
And, if she was hanging on his car and he knew he might harm her and didn't stop, I am thinking he will get more than involuntary manslaughter. It sounds quite voluntary at the moment. He could have stopped the car.
You're failing to take into consideration that she made the incredibly bad decision to jump on a moving car in the first place. You've completely overlooked that and put the blame solely on the driver.
For all we know, he might have stopped the vehicle long enough to fend her off, and once she was off resumed movement of the vehicle. So it's not accurate to say "he could have stopped". Too many pre-mature convictions are being made here based on assumptions about unreleased information.
It is accurate to say he could have stopped AFTER he realized she was hit by the vehicle. That's the crime he's not going to be able to avoid.
Quote:
Originally Posted by RedZin
I haven't heard reports that she was armed or threatening. Just that she wanted to be paid for the pot she was providing. I'm not in favor of selling drugs, but come on... you sell ANYTHING in this world and you expect to be paid instead of robbed, no?
I haven't heard anything that indicates they were armed or threatening, either. Robbery indicates a threat of intimidation or harm in the presence of the person. If they just snatched and grabbed it would fall under misdemeanor larceny, a far less serious crime than her selling a controlled substance.
To imply she should be able to feel safe and robbery free if she does choose to sell drugs is just over the top.
Unfortunately, the facts of the case based on confessions of those involved, are indicating these kids are in some deep trouble. I think the felony murder rule may be related to the hit and run and not the theft.
A couple of the suspects admitted going to the meetup with the intent to rob the girl. Two boys got out of the car and tried to get the drugs from her. She refused to give the bag to them without being paid first. The pair returned to the pickup truck. The other two suspects (one male, one female) approached the girl and grabbed the bag from her. They ran off and she gave chase. The girl hopped on the driver's side of the pickup and Simmons sped off. He punched her in the face and head several times. She fell off. The driver stopped the truck and the two kids who stole the bag jumped in. They sped off.
There has been no statement as to whether they ran her over, but given the extent of her injuries, I would think so.
Her boyfriend was lurking about 75 feet away. He ran up to her after she fell from the truck. It's unclear how long she remained on the ground until a passerby called 911 to report the circumstances.
Unfortunately, reckless behavior killed one and ruined the lives of countless number of people. This was a senseless crime. I know the family of one of the accused and I can tell you that they are very good, hard working, and decent people. They are involved parents. They do not deserve this either.
I don't know why some seemingly well raised teenagers are so rebellious. Or why they fail to take into consideration the severity of their actions. I'm not sure why some are so easily influenced by others. Or why they just don't care.
It's unfortunate that these people will all be defined by a single act. I know they all chose to engage in risky and illegal activities which unintentionally resulted in death. Such a senseless tragedy.
Unfortunately, the facts of the case based on confessions of those involved, are indicating these kids are in some deep trouble. I think the felony murder rule may be related to the hit and run and not the theft.
A couple of the suspects admitted going to the meetup with the intent to rob the girl. Two boys got out of the car and tried to get the drugs from her. She refused to give the bag to them without being paid first. The pair returned to the pickup truck. The other two suspects (one male, one female) approached the girl and grabbed the bag from her. They ran off and she gave chase. The girl hopped on the driver's side of the pickup and Simmons sped off. He punched her in the face and head several times. She fell off. The driver stopped the truck and the two kids who stole the bag jumped in. They sped off.
There has been no statement as to whether they ran her over, but given the extent of her injuries, I would think so.
Her boyfriend was lurking about 75 feet away. He ran up to her after she fell from the truck. It's unclear how long she remained on the ground until a passerby called 911 to report the circumstances.
Unfortunately, reckless behavior killed one and ruined the lives of countless number of people. This was a senseless crime. I know the family of one of the accused and I can tell you that they are very good, hard working, and decent people. They are involved parents. They do not deserve this either.
I don't know why some seemingly well raised teenagers are so rebellious. Or why they fail to take into consideration the severity of their actions. I'm not sure why some are so easily influenced by others. Or why they just don't care.
It's unfortunate that these people will all be defined by a single act. I know they all chose to engage in risky and illegal activities which unintentionally resulted in death. Such a senseless tragedy.
Yeah... I had a feeling that the ones who were not driving the car would open up to keep from being charged with murder.
If they did go there intending to rob her and the driver did attack her like they said, this is a very serious case indeed.
And sad. Just really sad. Her boyfriend did not want the passerby to call 911. What was he, an idiot?
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