Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
It was an indoor arena but smaller than Hockey Sized IIRC and just a general idea long term as a placeholder I'm pretty sure someone just bought the land it would be on so that's probably not happening anyway.
Why downgrade to a smaller arena with less seats and not marketable to the National Hockey League? That idea quickly saw its ship sail.
Oh good grief. Anything posted on hockeyfeed is not exactly credible. The canes are not moving. Least of which is this year.
It's too early to tell, but many cities (big and small) have seen their pro team leave town. Evidence of departed teams can still be found in some teams' names. LA is not known for having lakes but they do have the Minneapolis Lakers. And who goes to Utah for jazz music? New Orleans jazz makes a lot more sense doesn't it?
In the case of the Canes, two things are working against this situation...
1) A financially struggling owner.
2) Poor attendance/media coverage.
These two factors almost always result in the departure of a team. It's usually a renewed interest sparked by wins, more local media attention, and a NEW ARENA that prevents a team from leaving (or at the least convinces the league to re-enter the market).
Market re-entry would almost certainly require a new house for the team. Right now, the best local action would be to buy season tix and buy them fast. I'm thinking of buying some tix myself to be honest. Hockey is fun to watch in person. Like NASCAR, watching hockey on tv doesn't do it any justice.
It's too early to tell, but many cities (big and small) have seen their pro team leave town. Evidence of departed teams can still be found in some teams' names. LA is not known for having lakes but they do have the Minneapolis Lakers. And who goes to Utah for jazz music? New Orleans jazz makes a lot more sense doesn't it?
In the case of the Canes, two things are working against this situation...
1) A financially struggling owner.
2) Poor attendance/media coverage.
These two factors almost always result in the departure of a team. It's usually a renewed interest sparked by wins, more local media attention, and a NEW ARENA that prevents a team from leaving (or at the least convinces the league to re-enter the market).
Market re-entry would almost certainly require a new house for the team. Right now, the best local action would be to buy season tix and buy them fast. I'm thinking of buying some tix myself to be honest. Hockey is fun to watch in person. Like NASCAR, watching hockey on tv doesn't do it any justice.
Season Ticket sales are up 40% over last year.
Someone has the message.
The thread is based on a rumor of a rumor from "unidentified execs" written by an arm chair blogger pretending to be a GM. Absolutely none is founded on anything factual. The very headline of this thread isn't even accurate.
This reminds me of the anti-vax crowd. Million reports and websites saying no it is not true or will not happen, and yet find one random person with a blog and they all go "Seeeeee! I told you so!!!". Absolutely hilarious.
It's too early to tell, but many cities (big and small) have seen their pro team leave town. Evidence of departed teams can still be found in some teams' names. LA is not known for having lakes but they do have the Minneapolis Lakers. And who goes to Utah for jazz music? New Orleans jazz makes a lot more sense doesn't it?
In the case of the Canes, two things are working against this situation...
1) A financially struggling owner.
2) Poor attendance/media coverage.
These two factors almost always result in the departure of a team. It's usually a renewed interest sparked by wins, more local media attention, and a NEW ARENA that prevents a team from leaving (or at the least convinces the league to re-enter the market).
Market re-entry would almost certainly require a new house for the team. Right now, the best local action would be to buy season tix and buy them fast. I'm thinking of buying some tix myself to be honest. Hockey is fun to watch in person. Like NASCAR, watching hockey on tv doesn't do it any justice.
The challenge is why build a new arena when there is already a perfectly good one, complete with club level seating and luxury boxes. Would the taxpayers need to be fleeced to fund that?
The real question is why are the Canes in such poor financial shape (combination of large, long term contracts to aging stars and lackluster ticket sales) and what can be done to right the ship?
The thread is based on a rumor of a rumor from "unidentified execs" written by an arm chair blogger pretending to be a GM. Absolutely none is founded on anything factual. The very headline of this thread isn't even accurate.
This reminds me of the anti-vax crowd. Million reports and websites saying no it is not true or will not happen, and yet find one random person with a blog and they all go "Seeeeee! I told you so!!!". Absolutely hilarious.
Respectfully, the possible relocation of the Hurricanes has been discussed for at least a couple of years. The Canes-to-Vegas tweet is the rumor du jour, absolutely, but it is not as if relocation is completely far-fetched or that this particular rumor is out of the blue or without any basis.
Understand, the future of the Hurricanes is something being discussed in public meetings by the Centennial Authority, and will likely be discussed by the City of Raleigh and Wake County in the near future in connection with their interlocal agreement with the Centennial Authority (particularly if the Centennial Authority looks to go ahead with the major renovations being discussed). It is a real possibility.
Personally, I don't think it will happen for the reasons in my earlier post, but to compare this with anti-vax movement is an unfair comparison.
The real question is why are the Canes in such poor financial shape (combination of large, long term contracts to aging stars and lackluster ticket sales) and what can be done to right the ship?
I thought I read somewhere a few years back, that they have one of the more "team friendly" leases in all of the NHL, so the lease shouldn't be killing them. Sure you still have the State Fair road trip and the every so often spat with NC State over something, but nothing too major.
I realize that Jim Rutherford, as the GM, helped the Canes win the cup in 2006, but from '09 until he left in '14, the team was horrific, I'm not blaming it all on him, but it's sort of ironic that he is on the verge of winning another cup, this time with the Penguins, who looked horrible at times this year. Hopefully the Hurricanes can build on what they did last season and finally get back into the playoffs.
It just seems the team over the last 7 years were stuck in this, do we blow it all up and start over, or keep some veterans here and there. I know there's no magically formula, and being in a small market, options and money to land some mega free agents aren't really there.
That N&O article is too long to read. Can someone highlight why the sons are suing their father?
Quote:
Originally Posted by urbancharlotte
Sons were to inherit a trust fund that dad took out a $105 million loan on. Dad has not paid on the loan; sons are now taking dad to court. So it seems, the loan was to help keep the Canes afloat.
Quote:
Originally Posted by meanieme
Inherit from who, dad? grandpa? That doesn't make sense. Sounds like greed amongst the family. Never heard of kids suing their own dad, how ungrateful.
I may not be an attorney but I stayed at a Holiday Inn Express a couple times. (And I'm a paralegal, does that help?) It's hard to give an "in a nutshell" description of what's going on in the lawsuit but here's a go at it. Please note that when I say just "Karmanos" here, I'm referring to Peter Karmanos, Jr., the owner of the Canes.
Karmanos set up a stock limited partnership with his three eldest sons (his sons by his first wife, Barbara, who died of cancer) - Peter III, who's a VP at Compuware, the company Karmanos founded; Nick, who's a VP at the Karmanos Cancer Center; and Jason, who's an assistant general manager with the Pittsburgh Penguins (and was formerly a VP and assistant GM with the Canes until he and his dad had a nasty and well-publicized falling out). Not at bar but potentially of interest, Karmanos also has four other sons by his current wife (his 3rd), Danialle. Those sons are all elementary school aged or younger (off the top of my head, the oldest boys are 7 and the youngest is 3).
In that stock limited partnership, Karmanos held about 34% of the partnership while each son held just under 22% of the partnership. Karmanos placed shares of Compuware in the partnership and this allowed him to hold/transfer assets in Compuware to the sons in a fairly tax advantageous manner. And from what the complaint says, it only contained Compuware stock.
Karmanos then liquidated a portion of what was held in the partnership and funneled it to the Hurricanes and executed three promissory notes (essentially IOUs) saying that he would pay back the principal amount he borrowed plus interest. The first promissory note was made on 12/13/99 - details of it aren't really included in the lawsuit, but it covered $180M. The second note was made on 4/15/09 for $69.7M and called for annual installments to be paid until 12/17/17 or a year after his death, whichever came first. The third note was made on 6/30/13 for $101.3M and called for annual installments to be paid until 6/29/22 or a year after his death, whichever came first. It's only the third note that's at bar here and the first two seemed to have been paid off in full. Peter III, as a co-trustee, sent the default notice to Karmanos and states in the complaint that Karmanos has not made any payments on that promissory note.
IMO it's not an issue of Karmanos not having the money so much as not wanting to pay - the Hurricanes just spent a couple hundred thousand to sponsor Danialle Karmanos' charity golf tournament and in the last few years he's gotten money from a lawsuit against Compuware as well as from the sale of the Plymouth Whalers, the junior hockey team he owned in MI. I think at the end of the day it's a family dispute that stems from Karmanos wanting his eldest sons to get out from under his wings so he can provide for his four youngest sons, Socrates, Leonidas, Spiros, and Aristides.
Now as for the sale of the team locally the problem at hand is that Karmanos has said he does want to sell to somebody who'll keep the team in the area. That's all well and good, but his second provision is that it essentially be a leveraged buy-out - he wants the new owner to leave him in place as CEO and as a member of the NHL Board of Governors for 5 years, after which they take over. It's akin to trying to buy a house but the previous occupants insist you let them stay for a period of time and they get to keep control of the thermostat, household expenses, the remote, the DVR, etc. You can see why local interest (and per the N&O's Luke DeCock there IS local interest) hasn't entered into a deal yet. Or put another way, let me sell you my car, but let me drive it for the next five years before I'll turn the keys over to you. That's just now how business is done.
Now the relationship between the lawsuit and the team is uncertain - there's no guarantee that this is a sign Karmanos is in dire financial straits or that all the money got funneled to the team, that the team was used as collateral on the promissory note or what. Could the team be sold to someone interested in moving them? Yes. Vegas? Probably not - that's going to be expansion. Quebec? Maybe, if Karmanos doesn't either drop his price, drop the ridiculous "let me run it" stipulation, or both. That said, the team is turning the corner and season ticket sales/renewals are up. That's a promising sign that needs to keep going.
Sorry if my "nutshell" ended up being a coconut rather than a pecan!
Hockey is fun to watch in person. Like NASCAR, watching hockey on tv doesn't do it any justice.
This is correct. Hockey is a sport that needs to be seen live in person to truly appreciate. I can watch it on TV no problem, but the average joe who is a causal fan that likes Football more usually cannot. Therefore when the team sucks and the sport is already something of a novelty in its own region, not only will attendance suffer, but ratings will too.
It is also something the average person cannot go out and play, especially in the muggy South where Ice rinks are far and few between, not to mention the cost of equipment and trust me, it's not cheap and you really don't want used skates and pads. Even in Canada, if there is no frozen pond nearby, you would have to build some sort of rink in the backyard, which some people may or may not have the time, energy, or money to do. Roller Hockey is easier to play and organize, but trust me when I say Ice is more fun and much closer to the real thing.
Quote:
Originally Posted by cjseliga
I thought I read somewhere a few years back, that they have one of the more "team friendly" leases in all of the NHL, so the lease shouldn't be killing them. Sure you still have the State Fair road trip and the every so often spat with NC State over something, but nothing too major.
I realize that Jim Rutherford, as the GM, helped the Canes win the cup in 2006, but from '09 until he left in '14, the team was horrific, I'm not blaming it all on him, but it's sort of ironic that he is on the verge of winning another cup, this time with the Penguins, who looked horrible at times this year. Hopefully the Hurricanes can build on what they did last season and finally get back into the playoffs.
It just seems the team over the last 7 years were stuck in this, do we blow it all up and start over, or keep some veterans here and there. I know there's no magically formula, and being in a small market, options and money to land some mega free agents aren't really there.
Even after the Cup win and before the '09 run, JR made some mistakes that this team is still suffering from, like not finding a suitable back-up for Cam Ward, which led to Ward playing more than half the season and breaking him down in the process. The team also drafted rather poorly up until 2010 when Skinner and Faulk were drafted, not neccesarrily all his fault here, but at the end of the day he was the one who drafted those players that didn't work out. Some did work out, like Brandon Sutter in 2007, but others like Zach Boychuk and Zac Dalpe in 2008, or Philipe Paradis in 2009 (ended up being traded the following season for Jiri Tlusty) did not. Free agent signings usually consisted of fringe NHLers who were signed because they filled a hole and were cheap, now a lot of those players are struggling to make AHL rosters. Don't get me started on signing Tomas Kaberle
In Pittsburgh, he's got two star players in Sidney Crosby and Evengni Malkin. This franchise has never had players of that quality except for 2005-06 Eric Staal. I'm not discounting the job he's done there, the coaching change of Sullivan for Johnston and the Kessel trade seem to have paid off, but he has a much better roster to work with there than he ever did here.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
