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If you are trying to remove someone from a fight - and make no mistake, when this girl decided to try and pull the one girl off of her sister, she was PART OF THE FIGHT - and you pick them up and gently place them down on their own two feet the first thing they are going to do is turn around and take a swing at you. Should she have been slammed down like that? No - but she was never gonna get put down on her feet, and she needs to own her contribution to the proceedings. The idea that these people should be treated differently because they are in school is ridiculous, they are humans at the height of an adrenaline rush - all of them. Bad things happen when the lizard part of our brains takes over.
Frankly, if I were an SRO I would just let them beat the cr@p out of each other until they wound themselves down and gave up to fatigue, and concentrate on getting the other kids out of there. Either that carry around spray bottle of water and spray them like you would animals who are fighting.
Some good points, but I don't think it's crazy to expect to be able to hold a trained law officer to a bit of a higher standard in controlling their emotions than high school kids.
If it was a teacher that body slammed this girl you can be people would be up in arms about it. If a police officer is going to be in a school (and I have mixed feelings about SROs) then they should know how to break up a fight as well as teachers and administrators can. From what I saw on the longer video it sure looked like the school staff was doing a much better job that the officer.
If it was a teacher that body slammed this girl you can be people would be up in arms about it. If a police officer is going to be in a school (and I have mixed feelings about SROs) then they should know how to break up a fight as well as teachers and administrators can. From what I saw on the longer video it sure looked like the school staff was doing a much better job that the officer.
Have you ever broken up a fight at all? A fight between two teenagers? A fight between two girls (the worse)? A fight between girls with a group of their friends watching and perhaps on the verge of joining? The videos of girl fights expanding and one girl going down and being punched and kicked while down?
What are the odds that the sister was getting between them to break it up or to help her sister? If she wanted to break it up she could have grabbed her sister. When you get between them you are putting yourself in the line of attack unless you are joining the attack. The norm would be for the officer to stop the fight from expanding and getting out of control. If there was a second officer and administrators they would be trying to stop the onlookers from joining and creating a melee.
Have any of you tried to grab a girl who is engaging with someone else? Where do you grab them? Mid section and have your hand slip up as they wailing about and get a handful of breast? Yeah that will get you a couple of days off. How about if your hand slips down? Yeah grab by ...........
What you do is go in the same way as a boy midsection and hard, wrap and take them where their momentum makes it the easier. Try to change that momentum and enjoy the time off from hurting your back or worse.
Boys punch and girls swing, slap, grab hair and kick. The worse. What ever you do it has to be swift and certain to take them out of the fight. That can be as would be normal down on their front and handcuffed from behind. Otherwise what do you do when you grab them and they turn on you? Or the crowd does?
Lastly and most importantly if the officer is armed the most important thing he has to do is to protect his weapon and a person will often try to go for it if they have a free arm and hand. That can be catastrophic. It is hard to take a weapon when you are down on your stomach and your arms are contained until you are securely be held and if possible carried away. Remember if you are holding them your weapon can be grabbed because your arms and hands are sorta busy.
In the community police don't usually go in until they have adequate numbers for the situation. That is a luxury school safety concerns might now allow.
As well as teachers and administrators can? Most teachers and administrators these days are often physically unable and not dressed to break up a fight. If you want that then you need to go back to the days when phys ed teachers and coaches became administrators and forget some of the new education standards.
I have two girls so I've broken up lots of girl fights over the years, though my two don't usually come to blows quite that hard. Do you work in education TuborgP? Have you broken up many fights? There are plenty of ways to hold a teenage girl without copping a feel. I have two teen girls myself.
I can see in the video that a teacher or assistant principal is able to pull the two girls apart from each other. That's what the SRO should do, too —*not body slam. In this case, it doesn't look like the girl he body slammed was in the worst of the fight. She certainly wasn't fighting in either of the videos we've seen. I see no reason to doubt that she may have been trying to pull her sister away from the other girl. That's what reports said she was doing. Even if she was fighting (which I did not see on the video), she wasn't fighting at the time he body slammed her.
I have two girls so I've broken up lots of girl fights over the years, though my two don't usually come to blows quite that hard. Do you work in education TuborgP? Have you broken up many fights? There are plenty of ways to hold a teenage girl without copping a feel. I have two teen girls myself.
I can see in the video that a teacher or assistant principal is able to pull the two girls apart from each other. That's what the SRO should do, too —*not body slam. In this case, it doesn't look like the girl he body slammed was in the worst of the fight. She certainly wasn't fighting in either of the videos we've seen. I see no reason to doubt that she may have been trying to pull her sister away from the other girl. That's what reports said she was doing. Even if she was fighting (which I did not see on the video), she wasn't fighting at the time he body slammed her.
I understand your point, however remember police are trained as policeman and if we want them in our schools they have to be allowed to operate as policeman which is to quickly and effectively control the situation. I don't know the girls involved and the officer probably knows them and most importantly knows the climate of the school and relative possibility of things escalating out of control. Your daughters may be very different than these girls and if you have ever visited World Star Hip Hop or other sites where viral videos of girls fighting are posted you might agree.
Incidents like this are why schools and police departments establish protocals and most often the police win those discussions if there is disagreement. They are not educators first they are LAW ENFORCEMENT first and we want them and need them that is what we want them to be. Yes there are many ways to hold a girl without copping a feel however when some girls fight they are pulling hair, swinging, punching and kickings and can really be out of control and vicious. They are trained to quickly contain and avoid injury to themselves and bystanders. That often means using the persons gravity to take them down front first so if they need to they can cuff them from behind.
Have I broken up girl fights? With great reservations, it is the worse. Have I been involveld with establishing protocal yes also.
"they are LAW ENFORCEMENT first and we want them and need them that is what we want them to be." We can agree to disagree about what "we" want them to be, but what is clear is....the enforcement official did not de-escalate the situation properly. But the bigger question is....why ? Was he intimidated by a 100 pound teenage girl ? Did he "fear for his life" ? Did he merely over-react in the heat of the moment (which brings up a bigger question...what would he do in a really difficult situation ?) ? Do "we" really want that type of personality in the schools ?
"they are LAW ENFORCEMENT first and we want them and need them that is what we want them to be." We can agree to disagree about what "we" want them to be, but what is clear is....the enforcement official did not de-escalate the situation properly. But the bigger question is....why ? Was he intimidated by a 100 pound teenage girl ? Did he "fear for his life" ? Did he merely over-react in the heat of the moment (which brings up a bigger question...what would he do in a really difficult situation ?) ? Do "we" really want that type of personality in the schools ?
Regards
Gemstone1
Do we really know the whole story?
Affirmatively: NO. We do not.
That is why we have 'investigations."
The videos actually tell me very little, other than the incident was lamentable from start to finish. None of that is me supporting either the cop or the kids as right or wrong.
There were adults on the scene, and I will be curious what they have to say and what they witnessed.
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