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Old 08-10-2017, 05:18 PM
 
Location: Danville, VA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TrafficSys View Post
For Wade outside the beltline, to keep it as a freeway, and potential I-940 ( I think that's an open number), then the movements must be free-flow.
I-940 is available, but the number would have to be I-640 since it connects to an interstate at both ends. The at-grade access at Peter Karmanos Jr Drive would have to be closed off in order for the Wade freeway to meet interstate standards. I doubt there would be much support for closing that access.

Regarding I-440, I'm inclined to agree with DPK and orulz.
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Old 08-10-2017, 05:55 PM
DPK
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LM117 View Post
The at-grade access at Peter Karmanos Jr Drive would have to be closed off in order for the Wade freeway to meet interstate standards.
That's a good point too. I always forget about that weird spur into PNC Arena. If the NCDOT wants to claim that stretch isn't like the rest of Wade then I'd fathom that access point would need to be closed.
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Old 08-10-2017, 06:18 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by orulz View Post
I must admit that the idea of getting rid of the Hillsborough interchange is growing on me - at least a little bit.

But the only catch is, I can't see any possible way for it to work, unless they at least build that underpass for Blue Ridge to go under Hillsborough and the railroad tracks that they've been talking about for the last 15 years. Word from some of the DOT representatives at the meeting is that they are actually considering lumping those two projects (Beltline: U-2719, Hillsborough/Blue Ridge: U-4437) into a single contract and bidding it out at the same time.

It would be even more tempting if they would consider including some other projects like the Edwards Mill extension southward across the tracks, and widening Chapel Hill Road between I-40 and the fairgrounds.

They might even be legally obligated to study it now. Under the Environmental Assessment process, when there are adverse impacts, I believe they may be required to consider any reasonable alternative? At the very least adopt it as a new alternative, do some traffic modeling, and if it would completely blow up streets like Method, Gorman, Faircloth, and Blue Ridge with traffic, then it gets screened back out.
The further away from I-440, the less likely any auxiliary project would be able to be included. It would be outside the "purpose and need" of the project, which is the interstate upgrade. So not re-connecting Hillsborough would certainly improve the interstate, and other improvements along Hillsborough wouldn't necessarily be needed (for the specific project. Actually, the volume would likely go down in the immediate area of the interchange, but go up on Gorman, Blue Ridge, etc. to replace that connection to I-440.)

There have been a LOT of alternatives studied over the years, but I don't think removing this interchange is one of them. The analysis would need to start with a traffic forecast (figuring out how much and where the traffic would go.) There's other criteria that can/will be considered, including connectivity and access. While Meredith is complaining about losing property, they'd probably complain louder about losing direct access to their front door on Hillsborough. The avoidance studies are typically required for avoidance of environmental features than property (Meredith would be better off if they had a pond/stream there instead of a parking lot. I'm assuming neither property is considered historic. I didn't see those notes on the plans. The lumber company across the tracks from the University Club was marked as historic.)

The Blue Ridge/Hillsborough railroad grade separation is on the list for a 2018 let.
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Old 08-10-2017, 06:32 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DPK View Post
That's a good point too. I always forget about that weird spur into PNC Arena. If the NCDOT wants to claim that stretch isn't like the rest of Wade then I'd fathom that access point would need to be closed.
I don't think there's that much argument that the stretch of Wade from 40 to 440 is a lot different than the stretch inside the beltline. You are correct that if the desire is there to number Wade as 640 (I stand corrected as for the number) the ESA drive would need to be closed or an exemption (as an "emergency" access) would need to be approved by FHWA. (It was approved via the political route over the objections of staff when it was built, so it's possible.)

To repeat what I said earlier, for an interstate designation to happen, the project would need to connect the Wade Freeway section to I-440 with free-flow ramps. However since the inside the beltline section won't be an interstate, connections to/from that section can have signals (whether or not they're a good idea is a separate issue. In my view, they can be safely designed.) But to answer somebody else's question, any at-grade crossing would be signalized, especially if the plans show two lanes turning left. (The signal symbol was simply left off the map.)
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Old 08-10-2017, 08:01 PM
 
Location: Danville, VA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TrafficSys View Post
You are correct that if the desire is there to number Wade as 640 (I stand corrected as for the number) the ESA drive would need to be closed or an exemption (as an "emergency" access) would need to be approved by FHWA. (It was approved via the political route over the objections of staff when it was built, so it's possible.)
I'm not so sure FHWA would grant a waiver for it. They're a lot anal about design standards these days than they used to be. I can't see them allowing the access to remain, much less on an acceleration ramp.

Personally, I think it would make sense for the Wade freeway to become I-640. It already acts as an interstate since it, combined with I-440, is a shortcut to US-64/264 east of Raleigh from Durham and points west on I-40 and vice-versa.
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Old 08-10-2017, 08:52 PM
 
Location: Raleigh, NC
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Is the section of Wade Ave between 40 and 440 classified as a NCDOT secondary road? Wonder if there are others in the state like it if so.
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Old 08-10-2017, 09:33 PM
 
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The nearly-an-interstate Wade Avenue Extension is SR 1728. NCDOT could number it NC x40 without having to worry about the disqualifying ramp for the State Fair.

I believe the All-American Freeway in Fayetteville is another SR xxxx freeway.
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Old 08-11-2017, 08:04 AM
 
Location: Danville, VA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wizard-xyzzy View Post
I believe the All-American Freeway in Fayetteville is another SR xxxx freeway.
Yep. SR 1007.
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Old 08-11-2017, 10:04 AM
 
Location: Raleigh, NC
163 posts, read 154,419 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TrafficSys View Post
While Meredith is complaining about losing property, they'd probably complain louder about losing direct access to their front door on Hillsborough.
This was my very first thought, when reading the posts proposing doing away with the Hillsborough St exchange.
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Old 08-11-2017, 01:02 PM
 
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It's easy to be cynical, I suppose. I am quite sure that, given a choice, Meredith would much rather keep its campus intact and lose access to 440. They are not stupid, after all.
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