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No BC, I am not discounting the students at all. They are distraught and in fear right now. I'm saying that there are ideologues both locally and elsewhere (politicians, teachers, media) who are now "using these teens" to further a specific agenda. And that is wrong.
Many thoughtful people here understand what I said and will agree, but they are probably like me and have lives to live outside of this forum so they may or may not respond. I will let the following two articles, one of which represents the opinions of most law enforcement officers, address your question:
School shootings really rattle teenagers. My husband was a senior in HS when the Columbine shooting happened and it upset him very much. The kids didn't protest, but there was plenty of outrage and fear going around.
Now, kids want to be more vocal. Let them.
Quit assuming that they're stupid because they're kids. Plenty of adults aren't exactly geniuses and are far too easily manipulated. One look at our current government makes that quite apparent.
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Really bad analogies there....with no consequence on the current topic. It could be easily argued that safer cars have saved more lives than drunk driving laws. I'll argue that as many people drive under the influence today as did 15 years ago. We can only count the ones who are caught.
We have gun laws. They just aren't enforced. Background checks aren't thorough.
What we don't have are responsible households, and good parents. We don't have respect for fellow citizens. We dont value each other. We just want to sit and point fingers when things go wrong. I've not heard one conversation about this most recent shooters parents and their role or responsibility in this act. Instead we want to blame politicians. Passing the buck.
Over 4,000 students commit suicide in the US every year due to bullying. According to the CDC. Another problem that can be resolved. And yet we tolerate bullying, and turn a blind eye to it quite often. Every school has this issue, and yet many teachers are afraid to address it. I've seen this first hand. What are we doing for those 4,400 students? Changing laws?
Last edited by TheBigKahunaNC; 02-27-2018 at 12:34 PM..
You don't have to ban AR-15's and other "assault-style" weapons, just make people jump through more hoops (get an ATF license) to get them, like they currently do to buy suppressors (silencers), and full auto machine-guns (made in 1986 or earlier). It will be an inconvenience to gun hobbyists (they'll still be able to buy), but it should deter those who want to buy on a whim (angry and unstable people)
This is my stance, essentially.
I don't really have a problem with guns on a rational level. I am not anti-2nd amendment. I do think that people should have to jump through more hoops, the more dangerous a gun is to the public at large. The more people you can mow down in the least number of minutes or seconds with a gun, the harder it should be to obtain that gun and license to own that gun.
Yes, I know... anything can be used as a weapon. That's NRA talk. People know that, so why keep pointing it out?
But, much in the way that I cannot walk into Walmart and buy a tank or a grenade launcher, nor should a 19yo with mental health issues be able to stroll in and pick up an AR-15 or a Mini 14... etc, etc.
The "we should have no restrictions" crowd annoys me just as much as the "repeal the 2nd amendment" crowd.
Yes, I would love a utopia where nobody ever needed a gun, but I'm a realist.
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Here are some powerful quotations upholding the Second Amendment from the Founding Fathers themselves:
"The laws that forbid the carrying of arms are laws of such a nature. They disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes.... Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man."
- Thomas Jefferson, Commonplace Book (quoting 18th century criminologist Cesare Beccaria), 1774-1776
"A free people ought not only to be armed, but disciplined..."
- George Washington, First Annual Address, to both House of Congress, January 8, 1790
"What country can preserve its liberties if their rulers are not warned from time to time that their people preserve the spirit of resistance. Let them take arms."
- Thomas Jefferson, letter to James Madison, December 20, 1787
“They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
- Benjamin Franklin, Historical Review of Pennsylvania, 1759
"To disarm the people...is the most effectual way to enslave them."
- George Mason, referencing advice given to the British Parliament by Pennsylvania governor Sir William Keith, The Debates in the Several State Conventions on the Adooption of the Federal Constitution, June 14, 1788
After Hitler disarmed the Jews, he began exterminating them. The first concentration camp to be discovered by the U.S. Army was happened upon by the infantry led by one of my forebears. He had officials from the town come to witness what was going on in their midst. While every one of them denied what was happening, the mayor and his wife both committed suicide that night.
I applaud any school teacher who teaches the true facts of history and our Constitution. Those encouraging young people to speak in support of gun control are not teaching the Constitution and world history that's for sure.
So if it was up to you slavery would still be legal and women wouldn't be able to vote, because thats how the Constitution was written.
The Constitution has been changed 27 times. Times change and people evolve. This is 2018, not 1789.
We have that already. Do some research. Problem is, the FBI along with other agencies are failing us. Walk into a gun store right now, and buy a gun without having a background check done. You can't. If the background checks are failing, it's not more laws we need.
But there is so much misinformation, half truths and lies out here in social media and the news right now, people are easily confused.
If background checks are "failing" we need better laws around background checks because the ones we have don't compel people to follow them.
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I applaud these kids for bringing attention to their desire to remain safe at school. I have a teen at GHHS. The only teacher that has talked about any of this has been one who told them the “plan” in the event something happens. He told them he was going to try to do what he can. My teen doesn’t like this current walk out plan. They think it would be better if they all just really walked out one day. My teen doesn’t understand the safety concerns and why admin needed to know. Regardless, this kid has their own brain and thoughts. Thinks we as adults have failed this young generation.
I am concerned as a parent about the modular buildings. They are down the hill behind the school. Anything can happen there and no one would know. No one has addresses the safety there.
The modulars at GHHS concern me, too.
I've thought of that plenty of times, so you know people who intend to do harm have, too.
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Here's my stance: My child's right to go to school and not get shot > than your constitutional right to use an AR-15 for target practice in the woods.
If they are not outlawed, I do think they should raise the age for purchasing them, require a safety test (like you do with driving), and mandate insurance for owners. These guns designed for killing lots of people in a short amount of time, and people that feel as though they deserve to own them should prove competency and liability for them.
Here are some powerful quotations upholding the Second Amendment from the Founding Fathers themselves:
"The laws that forbid the carrying of arms are laws of such a nature. They disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes.... Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man."
- Thomas Jefferson, Commonplace Book (quoting 18th century criminologist Cesare Beccaria), 1774-1776
"A free people ought not only to be armed, but disciplined..."
- George Washington, First Annual Address, to both House of Congress, January 8, 1790
"What country can preserve its liberties if their rulers are not warned from time to time that their people preserve the spirit of resistance. Let them take arms."
- Thomas Jefferson, letter to James Madison, December 20, 1787
“They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
- Benjamin Franklin, Historical Review of Pennsylvania, 1759
"To disarm the people...is the most effectual way to enslave them."
- George Mason, referencing advice given to the British Parliament by Pennsylvania governor Sir William Keith, The Debates in the Several State Conventions on the Adooption of the Federal Constitution, June 14, 1788
After Hitler disarmed the Jews, he began exterminating them. The first concentration camp to be discovered by the U.S. Army was happened upon by the infantry led by one of my forebears. He had officials from the town come to witness what was going on in their midst. While every one of them denied what was happening, the mayor and his wife both committed suicide that night.
I applaud any school teacher who teaches the true facts of history and our Constitution. Those encouraging young people to speak in support of gun control are not teaching the Constitution and world history that's for sure.
It took a really long time to shoot a bunch of people with one gun back then.
Ruminate on that.
I think the SPIRIT of their quotes is good to keep in mind, but the right to bear EVERY TYPE OF ARMS IMAGINABLE has never been a part of our actual Constitution.
They also used to throw crazy people in basement nuthouses. So, I reckon that they had less of those to worry over, eh?
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Really bad analogies there....with no consequence on the current topic. It could be easily argued that safer cars have saved more lives than drunk driving laws. I'll argue that as many people drive under the influence today as did 15 years ago. We can only count the ones who are caught.
We have gun laws. They just aren't enforced. Background checks aren't thorough.
What we don't have are responsible households, and good parents. We don't have respect for fellow citizens. We dont value each other. We just want to sit and point fingers when things go wrong. I've not heard one conversation about this most recent shooters parents and their role or responsibility in this act. Instead we want to blame politicians. Passing the buck.
Over 4,000 students commit suicide in the US every year due to bullying. According to the CDC. Another problem that can be resolved. And yet we tolerate bullying, and turn a blind eye to it quite often. Every school has this issue, and yet many teachers are afraid to address it. I've seen this first hand. What are we doing for those 4,400 students? Changing laws?
We cannot control people's parenting skills... or people's thoughts. We can control access to dangerous weapons.
That's the actual truth of it.
When we talk about stuff like teen pregnancy, do we talk more about prevention and encouraging the use of birth control or do we talk more about the parents of teenagers who choose to have sex?
Because, these kids are from good households, bad households, and in-between households.
I was referring to shooters, not pregnant teens... but it applies to both.
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If background checks are "failing" we need better laws around background checks because the ones we have don't compel people to follow them.
That makes no sense. There are "no gun" signs on every school. Those have been ignored. Making more gun laws won't change a criminals intent. The laws in place would work, in a vacuum. But people make mistakes, cut corners, lie, etc. Oxy is illegal without a prescription. Can't walk into Wal-Mart and buy it. And yet it's everywhere. The kid in Florida had no business being able to buy that gun. Where did he get the money? Where were his parents? Who taught him how to use it? Why were the warnings ignored? Why does no one ask these questions?
Did anyone really think this thread would go 6 or 7 pages uncontested?
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