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No I am not slicing and dicing. You guys in Raleigh want to continue to use metro, MSA and CSA interchangably. And you always want to attach the 2.1 million population to all three. I am okay with you guys using 2.1 million as long as you state it is the CSA population. MSA is the standard for metro population. So, when using metro, you should use 1.3 million. I am just tired of you guys inflating your numbers. I notice that you never error on the side of deflating your numbers. Homers do this kind of thing.
Part of the issue is the census’ issue. There was just the Raleigh-Durham metro for most of our lives, so when the split came it meant people were talking about different things. Sometimes on purpose, oftentimes not. As is, I doubt there is another place like here where you can be in the city of Raleigh but not even in the Raleigh MSA. That is bound to cause some confusion when talking about comparisons with other metros. No need to write dissertations on it though.
I will tell you that I have not posted on the Raleigh forum but once before this discussion. I have ignored people from Raleigh coming to the Charlotte and Greensboro forums and state this crap over and over. I have been hearing it since the 1990 Census. Raleigh is not alone. It affects other metros too. But none whine about it like Raleigh. The Charlotte SMSA crossed the one million mark in the 1980 census. Then the OMB changed the criteria and counties were lost in the 1990 Census. So, the MSA population in the 1990 Census had to cross the one million mark again. My point is that other metros have overcome this problem. While Wash-Balt, Cincy-Day, LA-Orange County, SF-San Jose, Ral-Dur, Green-WS, Green-Spart, have not overcome the problem, others such as Dal-Ft Worth, Mia-Ft Laud, NYC-Newark and MIn-St paul have overcome it. Is Jeepcsc saying that the city of Raleigh spills over into another county?
The original poster ozmoe571 seems like a knowledgeable and reasonable person. His original post was about the Raleigh area's fantastic growth. I agree it is fantastic growth. I am sorry that I reacted to other posters' comments and devalued his point.
I will tell you that I have not posted on the Raleigh forum but once before this discussion. I have ignored people from Raleigh coming to the Charlotte and Greensboro forums and state this crap over and over. I have been hearing it since the 1990 Census. Raleigh is not alone. It affects other metros too. But none whine about it like Raleigh. The Charlotte SMSA crossed the one million mark in the 1980 census. Then the OMB changed the criteria and counties were lost in the 1990 Census. So, the MSA population in the 1990 Census had to cross the one million mark again. My point is that other metros have overcome this problem. While Wash-Balt, Cincy-Day, LA-Orange County, SF-San Jose, Ral-Dur, Green-WS, Green-Spart, have not overcome the problem, others such as Dal-Ft Worth, Mia-Ft Laud, NYC-Newark and MIn-St paul have overcome it. Is Jeepcsc saying that the city of Raleigh spills over into another county?
Raleigh city limits say Raleigh is partly in Durham County. So basically the Raleigh Metro area doesn’t include all of Raleigh. It is what it is, but playing some weird game where Nashville metro is half-a-million bigger than Raleigh metro is playing a game all the same. You draw a 30-mile radius around Raleigh and Nashville and you might be surprised at which has more people.
The area is divided into three prongs. And this puts much of the population on the periphery and 25 miles from downtown Raleigh. The makeup does not allow for Wake County to easily become the central county for the entire region including Durham and Orange Counties.
I started reading some of the dissertation, and did see this. As it relates to Nashville, I thought it would be interesting to do a rundown. Rutherford County, TN is bigger than Durham County and growing faster. Williamson County, TN is more populous than Johnston County. Sumner County, TN is bigger than Orange County. Wilson County, TN has more souls than Harnett County. In total, Davidson County contains 36% of its MSA’s population as of 2017 (in 2010 it was at 39%). Wake is at 49% of the CSA (up from 47%). Wake is absolutely the central county of the Triangle.
Boy oh boy is this a favorite topic of Charlotte posters here. It's like they'll do just about anything to diminish the size of the Triangle, and especially Raleigh.
While they incessantly cite the MSA, it's important to look at what those look like from an area perspective.
At the CSA level, Charlotte clearly has the most people but not the most land. That title belongs to Nashville. Conversely, Nashville has the least number of people.
Nashville: 7768m2
Charlotte: 5967m2
Triangle: 5510m2
At the MSA level, the same sort of pattern plays out with Charlotte being the most populated with Nashville having the most land area. Interestingly, this is where the Triangle gets split and diminished statistically.
Nashville: 6302m2
Charlotte: 5067m2
Raleigh: 2118m2
Durham: 1758m2
The combined area of the Raleigh and Durham MSAs is 3876m2, much smaller together than either Charlotte and Nashville but with almost the exact population of the giant Nashville MSA. When I mean almost exact, I mean 538 people separate the two but the Triangle's MSAs do is in less than 62% of Nashville's land area.
You'll have a hard time convincing people in the Triangle that one bounces between two MSAs when they are driving either I40 or 540 in and around RTP, when people from Durham go to RDU International or when people in Cary go to DPAC in Durham. This is all in addition to the people in the city of Raleigh that live in the Durham-Chapel Hill MSA or the people in Cary who do the same. It simply makes no sense from the perspective of how the Triangle actually lives.
Boy oh boy is this a favorite topic of Charlotte posters here. It's like they'll do just about anything to diminish the size of the Triangle, and especially Raleigh.
While they incessantly cite the MSA, it's important to look at what those look like from an area perspective.
At the CSA level, Charlotte clearly has the most people but not the most land. That title belongs to Nashville. Conversely, Nashville has the least number of people.
Nashville: 7768m2
Charlotte: 5967m2
Triangle: 5510m2
At the MSA level, the same sort of pattern plays out with Charlotte being the most populated with Nashville having the most land area. Interestingly, this is where the Triangle gets split and diminished statistically.
Nashville: 6302m2
Charlotte: 5067m2
Raleigh: 2118m2
Durham: 1758m2
The combined area of the Raleigh and Durham MSAs is 3876m2, much smaller together than either Charlotte and Nashville but with almost the exact population of the giant Nashville MSA. When I mean almost exact, I mean 538 people separate the two but the Triangle's MSAs do is in less than 62% of Nashville's land area.
You'll have a hard time convincing people in the Triangle that one bounces between two MSAs when they are driving either I40 or 540 in and around RTP, when people from Durham go to RDU International or when people in Cary go to DPAC in Durham. This is all in addition to the people in the city of Raleigh that live in the Durham-Chapel Hill MSA or the people in Cary who do the same. It simply makes no sense from the perspective of how the Triangle actually lives.
Very good post. The Triangle is an anomaly plain and simple. Its hard to compare it to singlular core metros without breaking it down to simpler figures. And hard to understand how it all works without actually living here or having experience.
In before The QC makes 7 or 8 posts in a row.
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