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The effect of various types of military installations on surrounding communities is a hot topic of study and debate. To shut it down completely under the guise that anyone querying the topic is anti-military does a disservice to the debate. To the contrary, it smacks of being blindly pro-military to not consider that there may ever be anything other than net positive effects.
If the position is sure, that may be the case, but that’s the sacrifice of patriotism, at least that would be more honest.
You should look at Huntsville, Alabama which has NASA facilities and the United States Army Aviation and Missile Command (Redstone Arsenal). Huntsville, which has a large educated population due to NASA and the Army's research centers, is closer to what Raleigh will be like with the Futures Command. Huntsville is the opposite of Fayettenam in other words
I posit that, “Others clarified that we’re not talking the same scale or even demographic here so it’s not realy relevant to go on this tangent“ was a pretty good apology/admission from me in the context of the Internet but who’s going to apologize for calling me “stupid” and “anti-military.” Those are personal attacks that I didn’t engage in here; I may have been wrong about stuff and maybe others too but I never went after the people behind the substance.
I can tell you that as an executive of a company that has Amazon and Apple among its peers, what's going to cost the Triangle isn’t the incentives packages, transportation issues or real estate hurdles. The biggest issue is going to be the perception that folks in the Triangle, even the educated ones, are a step or two behind in terms of cutting-edge thinking and openmindedness. The ability to debate issues fervently even when folks are wrong without resorting to personal attacks or broad characterizations is a linchpin of successful high tech company culture. If the folks in the forum are any indication, the fears of my peer execs are well-founded. The failure of the RTP Qualcomm team to come up with anything disruptive, in fact being the laughing stock of their fellow engineers while representing the best and brightest of this area, is another serious black mark of a data point in terms of what talent this area has the capacity to recruit.
You may get your Army installation but little else.
Six Sigma?
Just kidding, I think. I don't really know much about Six Sigma, but while that 2nd post was much like an apology, sometimes you just need to leave it at that.
I posit that, “Others clarified that we’re not talking the same scale or even demographic here so it’s not realy relevant to go on this tangent“ was a pretty good apology/admission from me in the context of the Internet but who’s going to apologize for calling me “stupid” and “anti-military.” Those are personal attacks that I didn’t engage in here; I may have been wrong about stuff and maybe others too but I never went after the people behind the substance.
I can tell you that as an executive of a company that has Amazon and Apple among its peers, what's going to cost the Triangle isn’t the incentives packages, transportation issues or real estate hurdles. The biggest issue is going to be the perception that folks in the Triangle, even the educated ones, are a step or two behind in terms of cutting-edge thinking and openmindedness. The ability to debate issues fervently even when folks are wrong without resorting to personal attacks or broad characterizations is a linchpin of successful high tech company culture. If the folks in the forum are any indication, the fears of my peer execs are well-founded. The failure of the RTP Qualcomm team to come up with anything disruptive, in fact being the laughing stock of their fellow engineers while representing the best and brightest of this area, is another serious black mark of a data point in terms of what talent this area has the capacity to recruit.
You may get your Army installation but little else.
You seem to be missing the fact that the "personal attacks" are a result of the complete ludicrousness of your comparisons and your insistence on standing by them. If I went into a meeting at Amazon or Apple or Facebook or anywhere else, here or in Seattle or in Cupertino, and started espousing concerns with no grounding in reality, and then stuck by them in the face of overwhelming evidence to the contrary, I would be written off in short order.
Anyone can see that a facility of 500 people working in R&D and engineering type functions is a world away from 20,000 GI's. The US Naval Academy doesn't seem to be hurting Annapolis, MD or Ann Arundel County. And the possibility of the latter happening isn't relevant either. Mostly, because there isn't anywhere to billet enough soldiers to cause that type of concern.
It would be like complaining about an oil company that opened an office here because drilling rigs in Texas or North Dakota cause problems, even though we don't have oil reserves to speak of and therefore no concerns
A "ground team" from the Army Futures Command visited Raleigh for two days last week, and as with subsequent visits this week to Boston and Austin, spent much of its time looking at office buildings the service can lease, said Col. Patrick Seiber, spokesman for the new headquarters.
The Army wants the new headquarters fully up and running in its new home by July 2019.
The final phase of the search is supposed to be a visit from Army Undersecretary Ryan McCarthy and Vice Chief of Staff Gen. James McConville. They in turn would send a recommendation to Esper and Chief of Staff Gen. Mark Milley.
Of that group, Milley's the standout when it comes to having North Carolina ties. Before taking over as chief of staff in 2015, he led U.S. Army Forces Command, the Fort Bragg-based headquarters that organizes the training of soldiers.
Having worked extensively in dozens of cities (not just in the US) with large military bases, I will make an observation.
Any city that has a transient working population (lots of renters rather than homeowners), which is seen often in military towns (understandably, because often times military personnel aren't sure where their job will take them next), you will see the "riff raff" factor that some have cited in this thread start to emerge.
When the population city doesn't feel like that city is their home, they do not treat it with the same care. They litter the streets, they act rude to others, they behave in ways that they don't feel accountable for, because ITS NOT THEIRS. There is no sense of pride between the resident and the city when the resident is just there to do a temporary job and has no intention of staying long term.
If a military installation is placed here that results in a lot of home-owners and long-term residents, it could be a good thing for the area. If it is a base with a lot of short-timers, you can expect the same long term effects (more drugs, strip clubs, road rage, crime) that happens in any city where there is a diminished sense of ownership and or a general self-accountability for keeping "home" a nice place to live.
Having worked extensively in dozens of cities (not just in the US) with large military bases, I will make an observation.
Any city that has a transient working population (lots of renters rather than homeowners), which is seen often in military towns (understandably, because often times military personnel aren't sure where their job will take them next), you will see the "riff raff" factor that some have cited in this thread start to emerge.
When the population city doesn't feel like that city is their home, they do not treat it with the same care. They litter the streets, they act rude to others, they behave in ways that they don't feel accountable for, because ITS NOT THEIRS. There is no sense of pride between the resident and the city when the resident is just there to do a temporary job and has no intention of staying long term.
If a military installation is placed here that results in a lot of home-owners and long-term residents, it could be a good thing for the area. If it is a base with a lot of short-timers, you can expect the same long term effects (more drugs, strip clubs, road rage, crime) that happens in any city where there is a diminished sense of ownership and or a general self-accountability for keeping "home" a nice place to live.
"...The headquarters would have less than 500 personnel..."
"...The Army wants the headquarters to be located near leading academic and commercial institutions to harness the best talent possible in emerging technology and innovation..."
With fewer than 500 personnel stationed in a region of 2 million population I just don't foresee significant risk of Dystopia including a rampant influx of strip clubs and drug dealers opening shop next to day cares and school yards....
"...The headquarters would have less than 500 personnel..."
This is one reason I said what I did.... specifically...:
"If a military installation is placed here that results in a lot of home-owners and long-term residents..." and "If it is a base with a lot of short-timers..."
I was making a comment about the overall polarization of sentiments expressed in the thread thus far, and not necessarily this specific planned installation. There are plenty of cities that have military installations that do not draw a significant number of transient residents relative to the civilian population. Those that do always seem to exhibit the same symptoms I described.
This is one reason I said what I did.... specifically...:
"If a military installation is placed here that results in a lot of home-owners and long-term residents..." and "If it is a base with a lot of short-timers..."
I was making a comment about the overall polarization of sentiments expressed in the thread thus far, and not necessarily this specific planned installation. There are plenty of cities that have military installations that do not draw a significant number of transient residents relative to the civilian population. Those that do always seem to exhibit the same symptoms I described.
OK.
My point was that all the concern about strip joints is completely off-topic in a thread regarding the prospect of a relatively small installation and, off topic to the extent that the "concern" proposed is ludicrous.
A best practice for getting lampooned? Reduce a topic to an irrelevancy and portray emotional silliness....
I would be much more interested in discussion of the original topic and the proposed installation.
If someone doesn't want to live in Jacksonville or Fayetteville, so be it. And, that is irrelevant to the original topic of the thread.
You should look at Huntsville, Alabama which has NASA facilities and the United States Army Aviation and Missile Command (Redstone Arsenal).
Even better, how about Natick Labs? 2,000-ish total employees, mostly in R&D. The town of Natick is best known around the area for its eponymous mall, perhaps the only one combining Wegman's and Neiman-Marcus.
They haven't announced which cities made the cut but are now visiting the finalists to recommend a site to the Army secretary. They've been to Boston, Raleigh and Austin so far.
The Army hasn't said publicly how many finalists there are. The process is designed to give each city the same amount of time to prepare for a visit.
The Army is looking for a location that's close to the best talent in academia and industry. It's also considering where people want to live and how much money is spent in each city on research and development, among other factors.
The Army is also factoring in the cost of security in a downtown area. No other major city has an Army command like this downtown.
The goal is to open it by next summer.
A few new tid-bits. Austin is a new "finalist" city. Interesting on how to interpret the "downtown area" phrase. I would consider RTP a good place for this, but it definitely isn't downtown.
Does the Army prefer an urban/downtown environment for this?
The article also mentions Fort Bragg as being rural. There are absolutely rural parts to the base, but I wouldn't consider the base rural, with Fayetteville. But maybe I am over-analyzing it.
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