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So North Carolina is building an expensive toll road in southern Wake county to mobilize military assets? LMAO
uh, yes! It's not why, but it is an important consideration. It's an important route to allow military assets to bypass Raleigh. NC has one of the largest military presences. What defense value does an 18 mile LRT provide?
OK, its official name is literally the "Dwight D. Eisenhower National System of Interstate and Defense Highways." Of course it also provides roads for motorists, the two aren't mutually exclusive. Are you really questioning the need for the interstate highway system?
Don't take my word for it. Read the Federal Aid Highway Act of 1956 for yourself.
Although the Federal-Aid Highway Act of 1956 added the words “and defense” to the name of the Interstate System (now the Dwight D. Eisenhower National System of Interstate and Defense Highways), the primary justification for the network was its civilian benefits, such as economic opportunity, safety, relief of congestion, and evacuation of cities. At the height of the Cold War and with an atomic or hydrogen bomb attack a conceivable possibility, Congress added “and Defense” to the name in recognition of the fact that the Interstate System would benefit the military, too. However, the emphasis on civilian needs was consistent with the position of the Department of War (now Defense, of course) dating to the early 1920s—if we build a road network adequate for civilian needs, it will serve defense needs as well, with some additions to connect with bases or military plants. It would not be possible to justify such an expenditure solely on the basis of military needs.
So to get this back on topic, comparing the DOLRT and 540 are apples and oranges. An interstate highway provides value far beyond an 18 mile light rail line. It connects to other interstate highways, forming a network useful for civilians and defense, for pleasure, commerce, and national emergencies. Both will result in development, though one will focus that development inside the city, forcing poor people out, while the other will focus that development in the suburbs, displacing few people. Both will require taking property by eminent domain. 540 will cost about half of what the DOLRT will cost and Durham taxpayers will not be directly responsible for paying for I540, though we will use it occasionally to bypass Raleigh.
EMI? This line is powered by direct current. No EMF (that requires alternating current!)
Duke made a demand that GoTriangle get a $1 billion insurance policy and later upped that to $2 billion.
Does not sound like they are negotiating in good faith. Sounds like they are trying to kill the project.
Seems some of you on here don't really care that it was bad faith on Duke's part; all you care about is that the project is dead. Well, it seems quite paternalistic for the leaders of Duke to take it upon themselves to "save the region from itself" nevermind the will of the voters expressed through elections and the referendum.
Apparently, the Raleigh-Durham commuter rail line depended on a lot of people transferring to the DOLRT line in order to pencil out, so that may be toast now too.
Oh well, let's just go and build more lanes somewhere. I'm sure climate change will be happy our Saviors at Dook saved us from a Boondoggle and pass us by.
So to get this back on topic, comparing the DOLRT and 540 are apples and oranges. An interstate highway provides value far beyond an 18 mile light rail line. It connects to other interstate highways, forming a network useful for civilians and defense, for pleasure, commerce, and national emergencies. Both will result in development, though one will focus that development inside the city, forcing poor people out, while the other will focus that development in the suburbs, displacing few people. Both will require taking property by eminent domain. 540 will cost about half of what the DOLRT will cost and Durham taxpayers will not be directly responsible for paying for I540, though we will use it occasionally to bypass Raleigh.
Just to set the facts straight (to make sure your argument is factually sound), Complete 540 is currently estimated to cost $2.2 billion while the revised cost of DOLRT with the new downtown alternative is $3.3 billion. So not quite half the cost of DOLRT.
So to get this back on topic, comparing the DOLRT and 540 are apples and oranges. An interstate highway provides value far beyond an 18 mile light rail line. It connects to other interstate highways, forming a network useful for civilians and defense, for pleasure, commerce, and national emergencies. Both will result in development, though one will focus that development inside the city, forcing poor people out, while the other will focus that development in the suburbs, displacing few people. Both will require taking property by eminent domain. 540 will cost about half of what the DOLRT will cost and Durham taxpayers will not be directly responsible for paying for I540, though we will use it occasionally to bypass Raleigh.
DOLRT connects to a vast bus network, and will also connect to commuter rail lines and the intercity rail lines. And it also connects to the road system in terms of park-and-rides and to the walkable areas around the universities, hospitals, and downtowns. It connects to bike trails, sidewalks, residences.
At the same time, while 540 connects to other roads and highways, yes, but those roads and highways already exist and will continue existing with or without 540. Even without 540, people could still get where they're going. It might take a little longer.
Pitching 540 as a part of a network while pitching DOLRT as a standalone thing connected to nothing is disingenuous at best.
The scope of gentrification by DOLRT is small, limited to the areas more or less within walking distance of the stations. And since it will concentrate development near the line, it may actually help to *slow down* the gentrification process elsewhere. I've never been a fan of using gentrification as grounds to stop progress. Redevelopment has been a thing since the dawn of time. Go to a city like Rome and start digging. There are dozens of layers of redevelopment over the centuries. The idea that we should stop it here and now is, to me, insane.
Durham taxpayers will share in the construction costs of building 540 because they pay state gas taxes. (Did you think tolls are funding the whole construction? Not by a longshot!)
If we rely on driverless cars alone, we are going to choke our roads so badly with induced demand that we are going to have to tear our cities down and start over. Right now the main disincentive to driving is that driving in traffic sucks. If your car does it for it you, then more people will hit the road at rush hour and traffic gets that much worse.
The only arguments that driverless cars will reduce congestion are predicated on the idea that they can drive much closer together and faster than humans, and even more bombastic claims that they will be able to coordinate their timing at intersections so well that stoplights will no longer be necessary, and traffic can flow smoothly in all directions at once.
The first requires that all roads go driverless-only. 10 years? Not a chance. The second leaves no time for pedestrians to cross, which to me seems like a ridiculous dystopia where we all are forced to kow tow to our wheeled steel ovelords.
The problem that rail transit solves is allowing reliable access to the dense areas that people love to be and/or have to be, and tend to be strong economic engines, like downtowns, universities, hospitals, malls, etc, in spite of traffic. And you can't just solve that problem by building more roads and parking decks; real estate in those areas tends to cost so much, and is developed so intensively, that higher capacity vehicles are the only way to go. This is the geometry of transit.
The problem that rail transit solves is allowing reliable access to the dense areas that people love to be and/or have to be, and tend to be strong economic engines, like downtowns, universities, hospitals, malls, etc, in spite of traffic. And you can't just solve that problem by building more roads and parking decks; real estate in those areas tends to cost so much, and is developed so intensively, that higher capacity vehicles are the only way to go. This is the geometry of transit.
The Triangle doesn't have a dense enough area that you've described. If anything, RTP itself should be made more dense, with more people living and working there. RTP has a ton of underutilized and wasted space. Instead of drivers commuting from all over (including Durham and CH's roadways) to work there, they should be able live there, play, and go to school. More people living in RTP would mean less congestion for the surrounding highways and roadways. Your arguments against driverless cars are old hat, and inside the box, for sure
The density you say we don't have is already there and continues growing year by year.
Rush hour traffic at Duke Hospital, downtown Raleigh, NCSU, and throughout Chapel Hill is already pretty bad. People keep on wanting to visit, study, live, and work there. These are important parts of the economic engine of the Triangle. Without a vibrant downtown area, (even if it's no Manhattan) the appeal of the area would be significantly diminished. For these areas to continue to grow and develop, we will need better transportation to them. Light rail is exactly that.
I am not happy with how the LRT costs have risen. I still think that over the course of years it will prove its value, but have frankly been half expecting that Trump's DOT would deny the project. But I am definitely not happy to see the project die like this at the hands of Duke.
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