GoTriangle report: Duke put one hurdle after another in path of Durham-Orange light-rail (Raleigh: centers, bus)

[Charlotte485]

Originally Posted by pierretong1991

I'm really curious what the timeline is for this project given that they'll have to double track the whole section between Cary and Durham and Raleigh south to Garner.

I just hate how limited frequency commuter rail can be. I believe Philly and some other larger cities north of the Mason Dixon have commuter trains that are actually good for the day to day. And in Europe, these bigger trains (usually called Suburban trains instead of commuter trains) are very frequent and useful. RER comes to mind.

In DC. The Penn like runs meh frequencies but also on weekends. I just hope commuter lines in the Carolinas (Raleigh/Charlotte) aren’t just Monday:Friday, 6am:7pm. Better than nothing I suppose but.

[pierretong1991]

Originally Posted by Charlotte485

I just hate how limited frequency commuter rail can be. I believe Philly and some other larger cities north of the Mason Dixon have commuter trains that are actually good for the day to day. And in Europe, these bigger trains (usually called Suburban trains instead of commuter trains) are very frequent and useful. RER comes to mind.

In DC. The Penn like runs meh frequencies but also on weekends. I just hope commuter lines in the Carolinas (Raleigh/Charlotte) aren’t just Monday:Friday, 6am:7pm. Better than nothing I suppose but.

Doesn't make sense to run trains at high frequency when there's little ridership potential. Not to mention that Amtrak owns most of the railroad tracks in the Northeast Corridor so they are more willing to share use of the tracks with commuter railroad services vs. Norfolk Southern/CSX in the southeast (private fright railroad companies)

From the Wake County Transit Plan:

The Commuter Rail capital expenditures include the Wake County share
of commuter rail. The Transit Plan proposes up to eight trains in each
peak with two mid-day and two in the evening, in each direction (8-2-8-
2) . The final service hours and frequencies will be determined during the
future alternatives analysis.

Also

When the four scenarios were developed, rail rapid transit (RRT)
was proposed as a rail option that would operate with 15-minute
frequencies within the existing rail right-of-way. After further analysis
and coordination with North Carolina Railroad (NCRR) Company, it was
determined that RRT was not feasible within its Wake County corridor at
this time due to operational and physical constraints.

(not exactly what you were asking for but sort of explores the constraints the planners came across working with the other operating railroads)

[netbrad]

The only way light rail is going to work is if they lay tracks in the middle of Capital, Falls of Neuse and Six forks from 98 all the way to downtown, and then in the middle of 540 out to RTP. Neither of which is feasible. If you have to drive to park your car in order to get on the train (think DC Metro) you aren't removing any congestion.

[wood_lake]

If the Triangle is too stuck in the past or too cheap to get a better mass transit then there is only 1 other viable option: have government encourage companies to have more remote workers, even full time.

I know people on here are going to be like "but going into the office is better for work because REASONS" when countless studies show that's not true. Best way to relieve traffic is to get people off of the road and thousands upon thousands of white collar workers do not need to be in the office every day (it at all) to get their work done.

You want to say this area is big on "research and technology" then actually put your money where your mouth by using the research that shows that remote workers are happier, healthier, and more productive and use readily available technology to keep them off the roads and working remotely.

[adelphi_sky]

Originally Posted by netbrad

The only way light rail is going to work is if they lay tracks in the middle of Capital, Falls of Neuse and Six forks from 98 all the way to downtown, and then in the middle of 540 out to RTP. Neither of which is feasible. If you have to drive to park your car in order to get on the train (think DC Metro) you aren't removing any congestion.

It depends. For any station, there will be a need for people to get to it. Either by walking, cycling, or driving. What cities are doing now is building communities around stations so that people that need to use transit, can live within walking distance (the crucial half mile).

If they park their car, congestion is removed for the rest of the trip. DC's metro, for example, extends beyond the Beltway (light grey-shaded line). People driving to those edge stations in Vienna, Shady Grove, Herndon, Glenmont, Largo, etc. aren't driving on the Beltway or the feeder roads into DC. Thus decreasing congestion as more people board the transit system along the spokes of the system.

With the addition of the Purple Line Light Rail under construction (thin purple line), which will connect the top portion of the spokes, more people won't need to get on the top portion of the Beltway and there will be more stations (Purple Line stations) where people can walk to get onto the system instead of drive.

An optimal solution is to eventually get to a hub, spoke, and wheel configuration. This can be accomplished by extending the Purple Line south on both sides completing the circle. You can see already just with the top half connected, there are three loops that are created bridging the spokes:

1. New Carrollton - College Park connection loop.
2. College Park - Silver Spring connection loop.
3. Silver Spring - Bethesda connection loop.

These internal loops can take even more cars off the road as people can go in either direction depending on travel preference. It opens up options.

You have to start somewhere. Trying to come up with excuses as to why it is not feasible will continue to hinder the Raleigh Durham metro area from getting anything worthwhile. Tracks needed to be laid down like 10 years ago.

You guys aren't hurting enough. I was in the area two weeks ago. It's pretty easy to get around compared to the DC area. I think people will be more pro-transit if congestion starts getting to DC/Atlanta levels. But by then, it may be too late starting from scratch. DC's Metro was in place before the current growth it is experiencing now.

[Eolector]

Originally Posted by wood_lake

If the Triangle is too stuck in the past or too cheap to get a better mass transit then there is only 1 other viable option: have government encourage companies to have more remote workers, even full time.

I know people on here are going to be like "but going into the office is better for work because REASONS" when countless studies show that's not true. Best way to relieve traffic is to get people off of the road and thousands upon thousands of white collar workers do not need to be in the office every day (it at all) to get their work done.

You want to say this area is big on "research and technology" then actually put your money where your mouth by using the research that shows that remote workers are happier, healthier, and more productive and use readily available technology to keep them off the roads and working remotely.

I worked from home as a subject-matter expert on "world-wide" research teams serving the IT community... hard to get much more "research and technology" oriented then that. We used every available technical mode to facilitate meetings, most likely years before most firms (usually many years before most clients.)

This is NOT whining, just a countering opinion from experience. "Remote work" is good most of the time for some things-- but you lose serendipity, team-bonding and any vestige of personal privacy. When I worked at the corporate offices... at 1800 bye-bye until 0800 then next day. I rarely worked at home much and did … normally a 50 hour week.

Post 2001... essentially, my employer ended up "using my previously private commuting time." Work started as soon as coffee was in my cup... my team lead was in England, multiple hours ahead of me, and of course, needed to talk NOW. Project colleagues were... everywhere, far too many too far away. My last meeting of the day was often at 2000-- unless a client in Singapore "needed to talk." Casual contact, seeing something odd on someone's whiteboard and realizing it applied to your own project... all gone, and we had fully collaborative work-space, web-cam conferencing and editing technology. My employer paid for connectivity, technology and office supplies, and got to save on my old cubicle-space. They no longer paid for my coffee. 60 hour weeks were the "new normal"... there is always email to be dealt with.

Remote work is not a panacea, but may be a useful tool in some circumstances. The Suits found to their shock how easy it was for us to talk with recruiters privately, and how swiftly loyalty and team-spirit fade without actual human contact. Loneliness kills productivity. Not seeing how hard other people are actually working encourages stress and overwork. Work-life balance tips swiftly in favor of the employers.

[wizard-xyzzy]

Originally Posted by pierretong1991

CRT will use existing railroad tracks..

The big-ticket items, then, will be

• bridges over Alston, TW Alexander, I-40, Crabtree Creek (already planned by NCRR), Lenoir/Dawson, McDowell, MLK, and Walnut Creek,
• whatever crossing closures besides McCrimmon and the whole west Raleigh mess will be needed,
• new track(s) at RUS,
• second track, with requisite signal and switch changes,
• a servicing facility, and
• rolling stock.

That sounds like a couple hundred million to me.

Originally Posted by wood_lake

If the Triangle is too stuck in the past or too cheap to get a better mass transit then there is only 1 other viable option: have government encourage companies to have more remote workers, even full time.

I worked remote for 7 years because my boss, my peers, and my customers were in Europe, Latin America, and Asia. There is good and bad to WFH. Pushing it as a panacea is an overreach. And if you'd like to open your wallet and contribute to mass transit -- you know, we just raised taxes for that - free free.

[pierretong1991]

Originally Posted by wizard-xyzzy

The big-ticket items, then, will be

• bridges over Alston, TW Alexander, I-40, Crabtree Creek (already planned by NCRR), Lenoir/Dawson, McDowell, MLK, and Walnut Creek,
• whatever crossing closures besides McCrimmon and the whole west Raleigh mess will be needed,
• new track(s) at RUS,
• second track, with requisite signal and switch changes,
• a servicing facility, and
• rolling stock.

That sounds like a couple hundred million to me.

Not sure what the total cost is and Wake County stated that they won't pay for what's needed in Durham County (but hey at least Durham has some money now!) but Wake County has $886.5 million budgeted for the capital costs for commuter rail in the tax referendum (assumed 4% annual inflation from 2015 to 2027)

[wood_lake]

I've worked full time remote for years. It's great. If you get lonely you can go to a coworking space. If you are gullible enough to let your employer over work you that's a personal problem. We need to get needless cars off the road and that's how you do it. Time for the Triangle to stop saying they are a technology forward metro and actually live it.

[papilgee4evaeva]

Any word on additional commuter train routes in the future? IMO Eastern and Western Wake are gonna need to get in there, and especially the Capital corridor.