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Our house in Florida was on a golf course, in a gated / guarded club. While we absolutely loved the house (our favorite of the 8 so far by far), we would not back up to a tee box again. Our pool cage was very close to the cart path for the third tee box. A bunch of dirty old white guys staring at my wife at the pool while they waited to tee off. Luckily, the neighborhood was 80%+ vacant for a solid 6 months a year, when they all fled North.
We looked at a house on a golf course once on LI....it wasn't a golf course neighborhood, just happened to back up to one of the holes (or greens, whatever)....the yard was littered with golf balls and the yard wasn't that big which made me wonder how many windows had been hit over the years.
We lived off a main road that ran next to a golf course in NY, and occasionally if you were walking down that road you have a golf ball land nearby - ACROSS THE STREET from the golf course!
Now think about what mowing that lawn would be like too!
Yea, we watch golf on tv and even the pros are hitting them into the crowds, I can't imagine how far they could travel with a typical weekend golfer.
Quote:
Originally Posted by wake74
Our house in Florida was on a golf course, in a gated / guarded club. While we absolutely loved the house (our favorite of the 8 so far by far), we would not back up to a tee box again. Our pool cage was very close to the cart path for the third tee box. A bunch of dirty old white guys staring at my wife at the pool while they waited to tee off. Luckily, the neighborhood was 80%+ vacant for a solid 6 months a year, when they all fled North.
Gross.
Did they have rules against you putting in privacy screening or plants? I'd be creeped out daily by that.
Some clubs are doing OK, others are struggling. In general, I think its a dying concept that is likely to fade away in the coming decades.
- Golf is less and less popular
- Income disparity is growing larger and minimal income growth in recent history means many people "on the edge" are losing
- Even less disposable income among millennials for a number of reasons (primarily rapid rise in costs of education/housing)
- General shift in societal values away from elitism and towards equality. Right or wrong, for better or worse, country clubs are associated with "snooty elitism" - something the younger generations just have less interest in than they did in the past.
- The internet as a whole has increased consumer-savviness and I think people recognize clubs are generally raw deals.
We live in the Treyburn community. They are desperate for members. We haven't joined. Why would we? I don't golf and they literally offer nothing beyond the "prestige" of belonging to a country club that isn't available elsewhere for less money.
Golf has a dauntingly high start-up cost for a new player, unless someone inherits or can find a set of used clubs in decent condition that fit the new player's height, arm length, etc. (I'm left-handed... even worse.) Plus, there are many demands on people's times these days. Fewer have the opportunity to devote an entire day for golf. Well, maybe it shouldn't be an entire day, but slow play is what it is.
And one pandemic later, most of the clubs in the area picked up a bunch of members this year. While event and dining revenue was crushed, golf revenue and interest was up. I know that most clubs are on pace to be up 25-50% in total rounds played this year. I wonder if things will stay up once things are back to normal, or if it will immediately return to pre-COVID levels.
Good question. It's like the spaces in shopping center parking lots that have been marked for picking up restaurant take-away. I wonder if those will be removed immediately after the pandemic subsides. And a hundred other adaptations that society has made.
Some clubs are doing OK, others are struggling. In general, I think its a dying concept that is likely to fade away in the coming decades.
- Golf is less and less popular
- Income disparity is growing larger and minimal income growth in recent history means many people "on the edge" are losing
- Even less disposable income among millennials for a number of reasons (primarily rapid rise in costs of education/housing)
- General shift in societal values away from elitism and towards equality. Right or wrong, for better or worse, country clubs are associated with "snooty elitism" - something the younger generations just have less interest in than they did in the past.
- The internet as a whole has increased consumer-savviness and I think people recognize clubs are generally raw deals.
We live in the Treyburn community. They are desperate for members. We haven't joined. Why would we? I don't golf and they literally offer nothing beyond the "prestige" of belonging to a country club that isn't available elsewhere for less money.
I say phooey to all of the reasons and to the whole subject of income equality.
I believe the problem and solution lie in two areas:
Our capitalism-based economy relies on consumption of more an more stuff that is mostly not needed. The US culture is driven by marketing and the message is to be happy and healthy, you must spend all of your money and then starting borrowing on credit cards for more and more stuff. That's the American experience, $5 coffee every day isn't a treat, it's normal food costs. If a celebrity is hawking flavored water at $4 for what you can gulp down in 20 seconds, that's ok. A new iphone every September is not anythiong out of the ordinary. Student loan money goes to expenses like these probably equal in amount to the tuition. Borrowed money isn't painful to relinquish on $1,200 a month private dorm space (that's just for a bed and a bathroom and shared living/kitchen.---There are 150 differenr Tide products at Target taking 1 or 2 full aisles. Because you need a scent booster, extra stain fighter on top of the pods that are 50 cents per load,...-It's consumerism gone amuck with companies trying to continue growth by placing rip off impulse items at checkouts no matter which store.---People need to think about that one starbucks coffee could be instead used for a loaf of bread, peanur butter jelly, and there's a few days of nutrition. If you want to buy a house, you don't buy coconut waters or eat $14 which wich combo meals. the little purchases have taken everyone's disposable income.
And the 2nd issue is that we need low wage workers to be participating in the same financial systems that the wealthy make money ., i.e. the stock market and real estate. CVS, Target, and Walmart should be including a few shares of their stock as pay to all workers which would incentivize better morale and productivity.
And can you believe that personal finances still aren't part of K-12 curriculum? The big credit card companies might be keeping it this way with lobbying, I don't know.
Income inequality is more about common sense thinking inequality, not realizing how much better one's money could be spent.
I say phooey to all of the reasons and to the whole subject of income equality.
I believe the problem and solution lie in two areas:
Our capitalism-based economy relies on consumption of more an more stuff that is mostly not needed. The US culture is driven by marketing and the message is to be happy and healthy, you must spend all of your money and then starting borrowing on credit cards for more and more stuff. That's the American experience, $5 coffee every day isn't a treat, it's normal food costs. If a celebrity is hawking flavored water at $4 for what you can gulp down in 20 seconds, that's ok. A new iphone every September is not anythiong out of the ordinary. Student loan money goes to expenses like these probably equal in amount to the tuition. Borrowed money isn't painful to relinquish on $1,200 a month private dorm space (that's just for a bed and a bathroom and shared living/kitchen.---There are 150 differenr Tide products at Target taking 1 or 2 full aisles. Because you need a scent booster, extra stain fighter on top of the pods that are 50 cents per load,...-It's consumerism gone amuck with companies trying to continue growth by placing rip off impulse items at checkouts no matter which store.---People need to think about that one starbucks coffee could be instead used for a loaf of bread, peanur butter jelly, and there's a few days of nutrition. If you want to buy a house, you don't buy coconut waters or eat $14 which wich combo meals. the little purchases have taken everyone's disposable income.
And the 2nd issue is that we need low wage workers to be participating in the same financial systems that the wealthy make money ., i.e. the stock market and real estate. CVS, Target, and Walmart should be including a few shares of their stock as pay to all workers which would incentivize better morale and productivity.
And can you believe that personal finances still aren't part of K-12 curriculum? The big credit card companies might be keeping it this way with lobbying, I don't know.
Income inequality is more about common sense thinking inequality, not realizing how much better one's money could be spent.
This seems like an extremely odd reply to my post. Are you trying to argue people should stop wasting money on Starbucks so they can afford a country club membership? That seems like substituting one poor financial decision for a much, much worse one. I don't exactly view country clubs as a beacon of anti-consumerism. I certainly don't disagree that we are an over-the-top consumerist culture and that many people have an exceedingly poor perspective on personal finance. I do disagree (and frankly, the math backs me up) that inflation in a few key areas (education, housing, healthcare) has disproportionately impacted disposable income for the middle class. That doesn't mean people don't make their own problems worse through irresponsible spending, but the whole "stop eating avocado toast and cut lawns over the summer so you can pay for college yourself" is just plain silly at this point.
How any of your post makes a case people should spend their money on country clubs is simply beyond me...
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