Is the Triangle in danger of Atlantafication? (Charlotte, Raleigh: cul-de-sac, best city)

[wheelsup]

Originally Posted by HouseBuilder328

Is that because of the sheer size of the 2 cities? And DFW are both actual CITIES and we don't have a city here.


Because like Taynxtlvl pointed out, they sure do have a lot of highways along with mostly grid-like side streets. I never realized that until I opened up Google Maps on my phone and panned to DFW after Taynxtlvl's post.

I felt, as long as you could understand the GPS instructions (much harder than it sounds there) the highway and road system was good. The bonus there is rush hour is fairly limited, maybe 30 mins each side at most...where as to me it feels like it tends to stretch for at least a couple hours here. My wife and I did a day trip there last Friday, we caught the first flight out at 6am here, did our stuff and took the last flight out there at 830pm and landed here around midnight. On our drive to and from the airport at the wee hours of the morning 540 had more cars than most of the roads there had during the day.

The area is yuge and has MANY job centers. This can be a blessing and a curse especially if you live somewhere and are looking at another job on the other side of the metroplex.

[wheelsup]

Originally Posted by don6170

It's been a couple years since I have driven in Dallas traffic, but I can't imagine things have improved. Almost every time I was there, traffic was horrendous on the interstates (and side roads), especially trying to go/from the airport.



Also, I would rather fly out/through ATL than DFW. I remember one time where it took us almost 30 minutes to taxi from a far runway at DFW (waiting to cross other runways) to get to the terminal. RDU is still pretty good to fly out of, often not having to wait behind another plane to take off.

FYI average taxi-out is 19 mins and taxi-in is 13 mins in DFW.

There will be some scenarios and during certain configurations due to wind it might take longer but it's rare. The benefit with DFW's location is it's an at most three hour flight to anywhere in the US. And normally, except for spring, the weather is pretty good so not many delays.

BUT, flying in and out of Raleigh is so much nicer. It takes five mins of driving on the highway to even leave the DFW airport grounds.

Raleigh is about the perfect size market. Not too big but we have a lot of good high paying jobs and low-ish real estate prices. You can go 15-20 mins from downtown and be picking strawberries in a field. Several smaller (but now growing uncontrollability unfortunately) towns to carve out your own sense of community in. One thing my wife and I noticed is how "corporate" our area is though. Not as much work/life balance as exists in a Dallas.

[alarson08]

Originally Posted by cheapdad00

The RTP employment centers are primarily campus setups with ample onsite parking. The logistics of light rail to RTP would complicate most people's commutes compared to driving. My 20 min one way commute from west cary would be at least an hour (with drive to light rail stop, wait for light rail, take light rail, wait for shuttle from rail stop to work, perhaps walk from shuttle drop off to work building). And then I'd be stuck at work without a way to get to appointments, offsite for lunch, etc. And I'm one who is irritated because 10 yrs ago, it was 15 min one way. Now headed into downtown Raleigh for work every day is a different situation (and one I would not have to deal with ever, but I hate driving in cities).

Oh yeah, and dont raise my taxes.....

And that is one reason RTP needs to change their doctrine. All the businesses are spread out and hundreds of yards away from the main road. This was originally because the founders wanted it to keep the natural aspect of NC. Now though, it is a waste of space and doesn't allow for any type of communal growth both professionally, socially, and transit wise. They need to build companies closer and get rid of that whole "no manufacturing" clause as well.

[alarson08]

Originally Posted by ZeusAV

Fortunately for the Triangle, North Carolina has done a much better job so far of planning the freeway network. Transit here just isn't necessary yet due to the way the metro is laid out so highways are the best way to move people around. Once 540 is completed it will relieve a significant amount of the current traffic issues and the area probably won't need any new freeways for at least a 3 decades, maybe just some widening of existing ones. North Carolina is much more aggressive than Georgia with it's road building so the Triangle will be better off than Atlanta in terms of traffic going forward.

I disagree.


North 540 is horrible, partly because of all the roads coming off and on the freeway. Traffic backs up onto Falls of Neuse in the morning more than a mile back because they can't zone better roadways and signals due to neighborhoods.


Capital Blvd took a decade before they settled on a plan to finally upgrade it, but that will take another 6 years to complete.


South 540 might help with some 40 congestion, but not "that" much because it will only help relieve ppl driving up to RTP and west cary.


Raleigh's biggest problem is that there is no centralized business area. There are tons of IT jobs in downtown Raleigh, chemical/manufacturing in west cary/apex, Pharama in RTP, and lots of other pockets.


I think the best way to do anything is a commuter rails from surrounding towns to downtown raleigh, durham, rtp. Then increase the buses, especially in RTP which is lacking a lot of mobility even though it is a 21st company haven.

[don6170]

Originally Posted by alarson08

And that is one reason RTP needs to change their doctrine. All the businesses are spread out and hundreds of yards away from the main road. This was originally because the founders wanted it to keep the natural aspect of NC. Now though, it is a waste of space and doesn't allow for any type of communal growth both professionally, socially, and transit wise. They need to build companies closer and get rid of that whole "no manufacturing" clause as well.

So what are they supposed to do with decades old buildings by Nortel, IBM, etc that are located far from the main road? One of the problems with light rail is that you have a very long walk from the road to the entrance of the building, which would not be fun in the winter/bad weather.

Downtown ATL doesn't have that problem. It was very easy to do a day trip from Raleigh to Atlanta, take MARTA from the airport to the BellSouth building (which had a stop underneath the building) and then back. You never had to get out in the open if the weather was bad (unless you had to dash over to The Varsity).

[GotHereQuickAsICould]

Several years ago, I talked with an urban planner who was involved in the Imagine Cary project.

Told me that given the direction things were headed, this area would be Atlanta on day. No question about that.

Whether we planned for growth, transportation, etc. or just played catch up was the only question.

[dariusxiv]

Originally Posted by GotHereQuickAsICould

Whether we planned for growth, transportation, etc. or just played catch up was the only question.

Planning gets my vote...

[alarson08]

Originally Posted by don6170

So what are they supposed to do with decades old buildings by Nortel, IBM, etc that are located far from the main road? One of the problems with light rail is that you have a very long walk from the road to the entrance of the building, which would not be fun in the winter/bad weather.
.

That's why you have shuttles for all of RTP. They can be broken down into sectors, but they would provide loop service and also direct service from a light rail station to their sector of companies.

Also fill in the "dead space" in front of the older buildings with new companies, create common parking decks, and combine that with shuttles and you have a good recipe from even more growth.

Considering the amount of money that floats around there, there is no reason it couldn't be a tech city, instead of a parking lot haven for companies. More parking lots than buildings in most places, and most of those spots aren't even filled all the way (just another waste of valuable land)

[Francois]

Originally Posted by wizard-xyzzy

Another part of it was that almost no one in 1970 imagined the metro would triple in size in 50 years.

This is exactly true of the Triangle, as well.

[UserNamesake]

Originally Posted by turkeydance

well, Raleigh would need to undergo Charlottefication first.

Close thread.


Although I feel like Charlottefication is gradually happening before our very eyes.