Is the Triangle in danger of Atlantafication? (Charlotte, Raleigh: transplants, established neighborhood)

[architect77]

Atlanta's problems come from a sleepy state government and DOT that didn't study, build-out or improve its basic layout of roads for 25 years as they watched the population triple.

Also Georgia is hamstrung by legislators across a rural state not wanting to support the metro area. Such absence of loyalty between rural and urban areas doesn't exist in NC, a fiercely supportive populace of everything within the borders.

The only exception to that are those in Charlotte who express disdain for the rest of the state, mistakenly thinking that all of the rest of the state is as downtrodden as the the rural counties immediately outside metro Charlotte.

As a result they go to SC beaches and don't really traverse NC to know that Eastern NC is not influenced by Appalachia mountain tastes like it is near them.

You are very wrong if you judge Atlanta's road adequacy by the wide 5-6 lane freeways. There are no alternates and entire quadrants of a 6 million+ region all have one freeway "trunk" to use, and one fender bender delays hundreds of thousands of cars for 2 hours.

NC began trying to keep up with the Northeastern states and built the most extensive network of roads with the highest standards. Today that system is aging, but it still is in the league with FL and NY in terms of upkeep and smart people looking over it.

Georgia is incapable of building highways that are attractive and without noticeable sloppy installations, crooked signs, etc.
NC's standards are in a different stratosphere, and Raleigh was just named the best city for driving in the country.

The biggest threat is allowing developers to keep building subdivisions accessible by one entrance on one thoroughfare.

Cul-de-sacs should be curtailed, increased connectivity to at least 2 major roads should be required, or else the existing network gets bogged down from more and more growth.

You can get anywhere in the Triangle 5 different ways.

Atlanta's freeways crawl like LA's for several hours a day and I will only use them after 9pm bec

[babybilly]

The triangle is nice in that the individual towns seem to take some ownership of their sprawl and the infrastructure needed to keep up with it. Atlanta is a big city. Raleigh is a medium size city. And very spread out at that.

[NYC2RDU]

Most large employers are pushing for remote work forces. The mad dash to RTP will likely ease up over the next decade or so as more people work from home, or stagger their schedule to avoid the heart of rush hour.

I'll shortly be moving to right off the I-540 401 exit and already know that if I'm not on the road by 7:00 AM, I'm starting my day in my home office and driving into RTP after 9:00 AM.

So much is changing around us, assuming that dynamics in play 20-30 years ago will shape our communities today is short-sighted.

[wheelsup]

Originally Posted by NYC2RDU

Most large employers are pushing for remote work forces. The mad dash to RTP will likely ease up over the next decade or so as more people work from home, or stagger their schedule to avoid the heart of rush hour.

I'll shortly be moving to right off the I-540 401 exit and already know that if I'm not on the road by 7:00 AM, I'm starting my day in my home office and driving into RTP after 9:00 AM.

So much is changing around us, assuming that dynamics in play 20-30 years ago will shape our communities today is short-sighted.

We have lived in that area for over a decade.

It used to be a 35 min drive to RTP, now it's over an hour.

But, despite the growth it's still kinda quiet over here, which we like.

[TarHeelNick]

Originally Posted by turkeydance

well, Raleigh would need to undergo Charlottefication first.

If that would entail having a phase of the level of insecurity and superiority/inferiority complex that lots of Charlotte folks (especially here on C-D) have....I'd hope we skip right to Atlanta level.

[Edward Teach]

[quote=architect77;56514080]Atlanta's problems come from a sleepy state government and DOT that didn't study, build-out or improve its basic layout of roads for 25 years as they watched the population triple.

Also Georgia is hamstrung by legislators across a rural state not wanting to support the metro area. Such absence of loyalty between rural and urban areas doesn't exist in NC, a fiercely supportive populace of everything within the borders.[quote]

I disagree strongly. The situation you ascribe to Georgia is exactly the situation as it exists in NC now.

[ozmoe571]

Originally Posted by architect77

Atlanta's problems come from a sleepy state government and DOT that didn't study, build-out or improve its basic layout of roads for 25 years as they watched the population triple.

Also Georgia is hamstrung by legislators across a rural state not wanting to support the metro area. Such absence of loyalty between rural and urban areas doesn't exist in NC, a fiercely supportive populace of everything within the borders.

Yeah, that's not the case. In fact, that's been part of North Carolina's problems, especially during this century when it comes to building roads. Consider how NC 87 has been widened to four lanes more than 20 miles south of I-95 into rural eastern North Carolina into Bladen County, population 33,190 and shrinking this decade. The only reason this happened was because Smithfield Farms has its hog processing farms located in the county. The regular traffic count doesn't justify having this highway.

Then consider NC 54 between Raleigh and Chapel Hill. Despite explosive growth along the route in Cary, Morrisville and Durham, incredibly it's still two lanes on long stretches between these towns, with traffic counts easily exceeding what NC 87 has from I-95 to Bladen any day of the week.

Add to that the numerous traffic nightmares Charlotte has along I-77 and I-485, the congestion along Business 40 , the fact that Wilmington drivers face 19.5 hours of traffic every year (higher than every metro in North Carolina except Charlotte), and you can see that there are a lot of urban residents in North Carolina like me who think that the rural legislators are hindering their transportation growth. The formula introduced during Pat McCrory's administration to weigh the most pressing needs has helped improve addressing urban needs somewhat, but as long as the state keeps its policy of trying to treat all counties equally with road construction despite huge population differences, it's going be an impediment for everyone involved. A better road network in the urban counties will benefit the state as a whole, not making roads to nowhere where people won't move.

[Mutiny77]

Originally Posted by TarHeelNick

If that would entail having a phase of the level of insecurity and superiority/inferiority complex that lots of Charlotte folks (especially here on C-D) have....I'd hope we skip right to Atlanta level.

LOL, Atlanta is Charlotte on steroids in that regard but have at it.

Charlotte and the Triangle have been growing and developing roughly parallel to each other but in different ways. Because of its polycentric nature, the Triangle is going more the DFW/Tampa Bay route as opposed to the Atlanta route.

Originally Posted by Edward Teach

I disagree strongly. The situation you ascribe to Georgia is exactly the situation as it exists in NC now.

Originally Posted by ozmoe571

Yeah, that's not the case. In fact, that's been part of North Carolina's problems, especially during this century when it comes to building roads. Consider how NC 87 has been widened to four lanes more than 20 miles south of I-95 into rural eastern North Carolina into Bladen County, population 33,190 and shrinking this decade. The only reason this happened was because Smithfield Farms has its hog processing farms located in the county. The regular traffic count doesn't justify having this highway.

Then consider NC 54 between Raleigh and Chapel Hill. Despite explosive growth along the route in Cary, Morrisville and Durham, incredibly it's still two lanes on long stretches between these towns, with traffic counts easily exceeding what NC 87 has from I-95 to Bladen any day of the week.

Add to that the numerous traffic nightmares Charlotte has along I-77 and I-485, the congestion along Business 40 , the fact that Wilmington drivers face 19.5 hours of traffic every year (higher than every metro in North Carolina except Charlotte), and you can see that there are a lot of urban residents in North Carolina like me who think that the rural legislators are hindering their transportation growth. The formula introduced during Pat McCrory's administration to weigh the most pressing needs has helped improve addressing urban needs somewhat, but as long as the state keeps its policy of trying to treat all counties equally with road construction despite huge population differences, it's going be an impediment for everyone involved. A better road network in the urban counties will benefit the state as a whole, not making roads to nowhere where people won't move.

Both states have certainly had their issues with funding urban road networks, but the situation is much more pronounced in Georgia. Just look at the road networks in Atlanta, Savannah, Augusta, Columbus, Macon, and Athens versus Charlotte, Raleigh, Durham, Greensboro, Winston-Salem, Fayetteville, Wilmington, and Asheville. There's no doubt that on the whole, NC's cities have much better/more extensive road networks than GA's.

[Edward Teach]

Originally Posted by Mutiny77

Both states have certainly had their issues with funding urban road networks, but the situation is much more pronounced in Georgia. Just look at the road networks in Atlanta, Savannah, Augusta, Columbus, Macon, and Athens versus Charlotte, Raleigh, Durham, Greensboro, Winston-Salem, Fayetteville, Wilmington, and Asheville. There's no doubt that on the whole, NC's cities have much better/more extensive road networks than GA's.

Perhaps so, but claiming there is no rural/urban divide in NC is absurd.

[MikeJaquish]

"Is the Triangle in danger of Atlantafication?"

Lordy, Lordy, I hope not. I would like to keep our hockey team.