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Interesting m378. I do have my issues with some of the writing; namely the idea that they themselves even have to put a caveat in there for; in that leaking from a lab does not mean that it is a manmade virus (as all evidence to date within the genome points to the virus as not being manipulated; namely in the RBD portions of the spike and its backbone).
However, more broadly, this could be one of those "conspiracy theory comes to life" moments. In various parts of the web, this idea, focusing on gain of function, has been floating around for awhile. There are literally handfuls of "tin foil hat" reddit subs that have been talking about it since 2015. Would be something that a practice that had its funding halted in 2014 (US funding GOF testing in Chinese labs), which was turned back on in 2017 (https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2017...-virus-studies) came back to bite us in the ass.
I'm guessing it's not unusual for the US to be helping and funding medical research in other countries. I know the US even had scientists stationed in China as well to keep tabs on things. I think overall this is a good thing. We need to have a worldwide presence to be able to know what's going on and get as much information as we can. I don't have a problem with that.
Also I'll note that just because a virus is not man-made doesn't mean that it didn't come from the lab. They could have been studying a bat coronavirus and then it accidentally got transmitted to an asymptomatic human who took it outside the laboratory. There was such research going on prior to the outbreak
Though this article does mention the following from Scientific America, that it doesn't match any genetic sequences of the ones they had been studying:
Back in Wuhan, where the lockdown was finally lifted on April 8, China’s bat woman is not in a celebratory mood. She is distressed because stories from the Internet and major media have repeated a tenuous suggestion that SARS-CoV-2 accidentally leaked from her lab—despite the fact that its genetic sequence does not match any her lab had previously studied. Other scientists are quick to dismiss the allegation. “Shi leads a world-class lab of the highest standards,” Daszak says.
So I guess we won't know and given China's reluctance to share information, probably won't for a while.
I'm guessing it's not unusual for the US to be helping and funding medical research in other countries. I know the US even had scientists stationed in China as well to keep tabs on things. I think overall this is a good thing. We need to have a worldwide presence to be able to know what's going on and get as much information as we can. I don't have a problem with that.
Also I'll note that just because a virus is not man-made doesn't mean that it didn't come from the lab. They could have been studying a bat coronavirus and then it accidentally got transmitted to an asymptomatic human who took it outside the laboratory. There was such research going on prior to the outbreak
Though this article does mention the following from Scientific America, that it doesn't match any genetic sequences of the ones they had been studying:
So I guess we won't know and given China's reluctance to share information, probably won't for a while.
That was my point too pierre. 1 doesn't necessarily mean 2. The idea of a leak seems almost more likely than not. The idea of a manipulated virus that leaked has, to date (and that could change) no evidence for.
The only thing that seems to be raising the "radar" of manipulation is COVID19's ability to attach to ACE2 receptors; which apparently we have seen in other viruses after they have been pumped through of all things, ferrets.
Be that as it may, I agree that as a species, we should be doing viral research on a global scale, as for better or worse, the modern world is an easy path to transmission. I guess where I get lost is, Chinese labs have 20 times the accidents that labs in Europe do (and 10 times the rate for US labs). Seems outsourcing this to there is not the best idea; but maybe, like in other industries (manufacturing), lax regulations in China make it an "obvious choice". I will laugh for the rest of my life about my dad's stories visiting Tanneries with inspectors in China when he lived in Zhuhai for work.
It took the Soviets some time to admit more with what happened with Chernobyl...maybe China will eventually be more forthcoming.
That was my point too pierre. 1 doesn't necessarily mean 2. The idea of a leak seems almost more likely than not. The idea of a manipulated virus that leaked has, to date (and that could change) no evidence for.
The only thing that seems to be raising the "radar" of manipulation is COVID19's ability to attach to ACE2 receptors; which apparently we have seen in other viruses after they have been pumped through of all things, ferrets.
Be that as it may, I agree that as a species, we should be doing viral research on a global scale, as for better or worse, the modern world is an easy path to transmission. I guess where I get lost is, Chinese labs have 20 times the accidents that labs in Europe do (and 10 times the rate for US labs). Seems outsourcing this to there is not the best idea; but maybe, like in other industries (manufacturing), lax regulations in China make it an "obvious choice". I will laugh for the rest of my life about my dad's stories visiting Tanneries with inspectors in China when he lived in Zhuhai for work.
It took the Soviets some time to admit more with what happened with Chernobyl...maybe China will eventually be more forthcoming.
I guess the problem is that China is home to some of the best scientists in the world at the moment so it's in our best interest to keep tabs on what they are doing. China currently is the world's top publisher for science/engineering research.
I guess the problem is that China is home to some of the best scientists in the world at the moment so it's in our best interest to keep tabs on what they are doing. China currently is the world's top publisher for science/engineering research.
Understood for sure. And its not just medical scientists (see Machine Learning and AI as well, where they are wayyyyyyyy ahead of us).
Whoah last and by a good margin! Thank you for posting.
That's a big jump, hopefully a one day blip and not a sign of an upward trend.
hopefully folks will read it. Personally, I have always found wallethub to be notoriously clickbait and their "categories" may not be relevant.
29th – Coronavirus Relief Fund per Capita
37th – Adoption of Telehealth Services
23rd – Share of Households in Poverty Receiving Social Assistance
32nd – Share of Sheltered Homeless Population
51st – Unemployment Insurance Recipiency Rate
44th – Ratio of Average Weekly Wage Covered by Unemployment Benefit
I wouldn't tout them calling us #1 in something either.
hopefully folks will read it. Personally, I have always found wallethub to be notoriously clickbait and their "categories" may not be relevant.
29th – Coronavirus Relief Fund per Capita 37th – Adoption of Telehealth Services
23rd – Share of Households in Poverty Receiving Social Assistance
32nd – Share of Sheltered Homeless Population
51st – Unemployment Insurance Recipiency Rate
44th – Ratio of Average Weekly Wage Covered by Unemployment Benefit
I wouldn't tout them calling us #1 in something either.
I actually think those three I highlighted to be very relevant. For example, telehealth, some states offering such services for a very low $$. I know Duke lowered their prices for telehealth, but I think there should be a way to offer such things even for free. For example, make people click through some "screening" options, such as Covid-19 symptoms, and if they pass the criteria, make it free. So that you can quickly identify these people and tell them where to go to get tested.
Poor people are going to suffer the most, and if you have a high number of poor people receiving social assistance that means as a state you have to do more about it. This study is trying to figure out the level of support. So it does make sense to me to have it as one of the variables.
Last, the sheltered homeless population -- this totally deserves to be one of the variables. If they have no where to go, and as a city/state you have no shelters to take care of these people, when they get the disease, you have no way controlling it. But, if you have designated areas, you can at least keep them there, take care of them there. I think it makes sense.
WalletHub is clickbait-y, I agree. But, the study methodology seems to be okay. I mean obviously they didn't spend $$$ and probably didn't higher the brightest to do it. But, the variables they used seem pretty legit (I mean they probably used what's readily available online in terms of data)
US intelligence says that COVID-19 wasn't "manmade or genetically modified", but they're still trying to figure out whether or not it escaped from the virology lab in Wuhan, or if it came from contact with infected animals.
US intelligence says that COVID-19 wasn't "manmade or genetically modified", but they're still trying to figure out whether or not it escaped from the virology lab in Wuhan, or if it came from contact with infected animals.
Saw the same, but figured it would open the chance of a "source vs source argument"
I talked to my buddy who I have mentioned here before (dual PhD, is a chemist for Merck). He flat out said this AM "no, based on everything we have seen, this is not a manmade or modified virus". He is open to the idea that it could have snuck out of a lab through carelessness/accident; but that would require information we don't have (i.e. patient zero) that is likely never to be available.
Given the government is now preparing "retaliation" towards China on this (by either nullifying all our debt they own or stripping China of sovereign immunity (which would mean US Citizens could sue them for this) it seems we've reached the "here's the Political off ramp, take it" phase of this.
Observation -
Watching WECT news as yesterday we lost internet and checked other sources, I see the news guy wearing a white shirt and tie as he reports from home. Some people come across just fine in more comfortable clothing in their homes.
Also some reporters like Tish and Andrea still look stunning while working from home as if they have professional makeup artists.
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