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Old 05-13-2020, 01:56 PM
 
2,584 posts, read 1,863,073 times
Reputation: 2212

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Quote:
Originally Posted by twingles View Post
There will be a second wave. History shows it happens and no expert thinks this will be different. The question is will people be cooperative again and go through all these machinations in the late summer,fall, or whenever it happens. “COVID fatigue “ is already a real thing.
Haven't read the thread from this post onward yet, and I will, but this fatigue thingy - really, there is something to be said about graceful patience, which is sorely lacking.

I mean, it's only been weeks, and this is just the start of a marathon.

On one hand, some people need to get back to work, where and when it's sensible to do so; on the other hand, that there were lines out the doors when TJ Maxx and Home Goods opened Saturday, which is really a pretty poor showing of Americans' resilience. A couple of generations before us are laughing at our neediness. What a bunch of wusses. TJ Maxx - as if.

As Fauci said last night and other authorities on this consistently maintain, this is goig to result not in an extended curve, but a complete reset. If the current curve is one step forward, going to malls now will be one step forward and two or three steps back.
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Old 05-13-2020, 02:07 PM
 
Location: At the NC-SC Border
8,159 posts, read 10,895,414 times
Reputation: 6647
Quote:
Originally Posted by zitsky View Post
Do you people who wear masks all the time wear glasses? I tried a trick I learned to not fog up my glasses but it didn't work that well (use shaving cream). I sure wish I wore contacts right now.
I wear a mask and safety glasses. No trouble with fogging, but my glasses conform to my face. They’re also lined with closed cell foam.
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Old 05-13-2020, 02:08 PM
 
Location: Raleigh, NC
6,817 posts, read 9,023,653 times
Reputation: 5183
I heard 5000 people went to Umstead when it opened. How many were wearing masks?
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Old 05-13-2020, 02:30 PM
 
Location: Raleigh NC
25,119 posts, read 16,146,620 times
Reputation: 14408
probably less than 10%. That's 1 person per acre
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Old 05-13-2020, 02:35 PM
 
Location: Oxxford Hunt, Cary NC
4,477 posts, read 11,599,834 times
Reputation: 4263
I don't know if this was linked earlier in the thread, but I found this blog post very interesting:

https://www.erinbromage.com/post/the...hem-avoid-them

Makes me feel much better about my grocery store trips, but also highlights why going back to the office is a risky proposition.
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Old 05-13-2020, 02:44 PM
 
Location: Where the College Used to Be
3,727 posts, read 2,044,060 times
Reputation: 3054
Quote:
Originally Posted by BoBromhal View Post
Since the first google results I find are no newer than Apr 24, it's very hard to get on the asymptomatic %. It's certainly why we should all continue to limit prolonged contact, social distancing, and good hygiene (which includes masks). Asymptomatic is as "low" as "up to 25%" (which is a huge range) and as high as 50% (of tests in Iceland as of early April).
Ya I don't claim to know what the exact range for the aysmptomatic throughout crowd is, just that those are the proverbial embers waiting to restart the fire if you will.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BoBromhal View Post
You're completely right of course about the proverbial "Governor in northern state that actually slashes their snow-remediation budget." You know it's going to happen every year, you know how much it costs in the average of the last 3 years, etc. Conversely, I understand why NJ/NY was so unprepared for Sandy. If you've got to stockpile a large monetary and physical stuff for a once a century event - and those goods have to be replaced every 20 years - the citizenry is going to be mad that you "paid" for that hurricane 4x before it ever happened.
I get the "angst". I do. I guess my question is this.

Is a tiny (as a % of the total Federal budget) line item on a budget for "Pandemic Response" worth cutting, because to your point, it happens at this scale once in a lifetime, if the cost of not having/heeding it and having to start from scratch when it shows up (because it will, we simply just don't know when) is many, many times the line item cost?

For instance, lets say the "Pandemic Response" team cost $5B a year. That is a crap load of coin to you and I (and everyone here) but in the scheme of things, that would represent .1% of the latest budget. But this is the team that is your eyes and ears. Your early "set in motion" team that gets the ball rolling when the monster shows up on the horizon.

Now lets say COVID19 costs the US Economy $950B-$1T in lost GDP (I saw estimates in March going this high) never mind the losses you can't quantify; lives.

In this (admittedly) over simplified example, you would have pay for that organization 200 times over before you reach the break even point in terms of losses. From my seat, whatever the spend is is worth it if it cuts the "cost when these things show up" by 25% even. To me, that is easy money to spend. YMMV.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BoBromhal View Post
As to Rolling Stone, as far as I know they've not recovered their journalistic integrity and fairness since Charlottesville. If it's the "Four men responsible" on their website, I'll read the whole thing but it's carefully-crafted in the beginning to tell us Trump screwed up and all the blame lies there. It sets the narrative early; perhaps it is thorough after a while but one thing I have learned (again) is the paucity of folks who read beyond a headline and lede
It is the one, but read it (beyond the lede ). It doesn't really bash Trump so much personally as it really lays bare the ineptitude of the people he has put in place, which was his choice and he has to own that. Azar at HHS is a lobbyist, Redfield at CDC is most famous for trying to battle AIDS by saying "don't bone. Its naughty!", Hahn's never run an agency and was plopped down in the key agency in this (the FDA) what a month before all this hit? So a guy who has never run something like that makes sense to put in place right when this thing gets going (and you knew it was coming for the two months prior)?

Quote:
Originally Posted by BoBromhal View Post
Nevermind Patty Murray claiming the health system was overwhelmed (it never was), there's this:
It never was here. Where is Murray from? WA State? Something tells me her state was a little more deeply impacted than we have been. Whether it was overwhelmed, I don't know. I don't live in Seattle.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BoBromhal View Post
Does "let's follow the rules" or "honor the red tape" or even "We can't trust private business" sound like Trump?
Not in the slightest, but again you're working from the perception that Trump actually wanted to do something about it. I don't think his public proclamations all the way to almost mid March speak to that. He seemingly was much more concerned with "keep this thing from ruining my economy as that is my Golden Ticket" than he was actually fighting it. Further, its a lot easier to bend the rules at say DOJ than it is at FDA/CDC.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BoBromhal View Post
What about Ron Klain?

He'd been back in private lobbying life for 3 years; his claim to government fame was chief of staff for Gore and Biden before that. So in 5 months he became an expert on public health? And we're supposed to take this as gospel?
Didn't Klain play the role of Mike Pence? Basically "Team Project Manager and Organizer"? He wasn't there organizing medical responses or providing expertise, he was a PM for all intents and purposes. Just as Pence has been here. Pence is the "Team Manager" and Fauci/Birx are the "experts".


Quote:
Originally Posted by BoBromhal View Post
So, to go back to preparedness - if we had a bunch of PPE that expired a decade ago, and we hadn't replenished the stockpile since 2009 - that's the CDC's fault and can't be pinned on the 3 yr occupant of the WH. I haven't "blamed" Obama or any of his actions, just as I personally think it's wrong to dislike Trump so much to blame it all on him. There are people in place across administrations that are supposed to be scientists, not partisans. Where was the department in charge of maintaining the stockpile? Was there or not an annual budget for replacement? What was put in the "playbook" - and already put into place - logistically to gather tests from millions of people? A "playbook" that says "if it happens, the CDC can't handle all the tests, so you need partnerships in place and oh by the way, different companies operate very differently with materials." but didn't actually PUT THAT IN PLACE isn't a very good playbook (since we had a decade after H1N1).

Do POTUS' appoint the people who run the agencies/organizations within their admins or not? If you hire me and I eff up, does that not reflect on you as my manager? The Buck Stops with Them, as Harry Truman put it, correct?

Last edited by GVoR; 05-13-2020 at 02:57 PM..
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Old 05-13-2020, 02:47 PM
 
Location: NC
1,836 posts, read 1,590,639 times
Reputation: 1793
Quote:
Originally Posted by zitsky View Post
Do you people who wear masks all the time wear glasses? I tried a trick I learned to not fog up my glasses but it didn't work that well (use shaving cream). I sure wish I wore contacts right now.
What do you do with shaving cream? I wear glasses and don't have too much of a problem. It's not like I am working out or wearing the mask in a hot and humid store.
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Old 05-13-2020, 02:54 PM
 
598 posts, read 331,653 times
Reputation: 986
Quote:
Originally Posted by zitsky View Post
Do you people who wear masks all the time wear glasses? I tried a trick I learned to not fog up my glasses but it didn't work that well (use shaving cream). I sure wish I wore contacts right now.

I only wear masks when I'm out shopping, but I do have glasses. For me the most comfortable masks with the least fogging are surgical-style pleated ones I can tuck under my glasses. I stick a folded tissue in the pocket as a filter. If I adjust the mask and filter right, fogging isn't an issue. These are cloth masks I made myself.
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Old 05-13-2020, 02:56 PM
 
1,462 posts, read 652,453 times
Reputation: 4803
GVoR, drop the mike on that one. Just the facts. All facts.
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Old 05-13-2020, 03:17 PM
 
628 posts, read 396,071 times
Reputation: 621
Quote:
Originally Posted by JaPaKoMom View Post
What do you do with shaving cream? I wear glasses and don't have too much of a problem. It's not like I am working out or wearing the mask in a hot and humid store.
Rub shaving cream on the lenses, then wipe off. Its an old trick to prevent bathroom mirrors from fogging up. I've not found it to work very well.
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