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Old 07-22-2021, 10:56 PM
 
4,053 posts, read 4,790,902 times
Reputation: 3797

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sal_M View Post
You make it sound like this inability to sure is new. The law protecting vaccine makers from being sued was passed in 1986 and in 2011 a supreme court ruling clarified the types of lawsuits vaccine makers are protected from in the vaccine act. COVID vaccines are not being treated differently than any other vaccine.
That doesn't change the fact that there are people who have developed sudden and sometimes serious unexplained illness or long term disabling medical issues shortly after being vaccinated and they are on their own. In many cases doctors do not know how to treat or help these patients recover. The COVID vaccines are still experimental.
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Old 07-23-2021, 06:49 AM
 
17,585 posts, read 15,289,361 times
Reputation: 26363
How long is "long enough" for development and for testing?

I hear this as a complaint -- the vaccines were developed "too fast," and weren't tested "long enough."

That's subjective.

How about putting some actual timeframes and specifics, rather than handwaving:

- How long should it take to develop a vaccine?
- What criteria are you using to determine how long it should take?
- How long should it take to thoroughly test?
- What testing processes and steps weren't completed or were altogether bypassed?

FYI, mRNA technology has been in development for at least 2 decades. It wasn't just invented last year. The new piece to this was obtaining the specific DNA sequence for the SARS2 covid virus to create a vaccine targeted to that particular virus and its unique characteristics.

In case people don't realize, the entire human genome was fully decoded 22 years ago (1999). Reaching that one monumental goal has allowed for faster development and targeted therapies ever since.
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Old 07-23-2021, 07:19 AM
 
Location: Durm
7,104 posts, read 11,540,807 times
Reputation: 8049
Quote:
Originally Posted by lottamoxie View Post
[
FYI, mRNA technology has been in development for at least 2 decades. It wasn't just invented last year. The new piece to this was obtaining the specific DNA sequence for the SARS2 covid virus to create a vaccine targeted to that particular virus and its unique characteristics.

In case people don't realize, the entire human genome was fully decoded 22 years ago (1999). Reaching that one monumental goal has allowed for faster development and targeted therapies ever since.
Thank you! I literally linked in this thread to some info about that but clearly she didn't bother to read them and just wants to spout off.
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Old 07-23-2021, 08:38 AM
 
2,924 posts, read 3,320,957 times
Reputation: 2582
Quote:
Originally Posted by Starglow View Post
That doesn't change the fact that there are people who have developed sudden and sometimes serious unexplained illness or long term disabling medical issues shortly after being vaccinated and they are on their own. In many cases doctors do not know how to treat or help these patients recover. The COVID vaccines are still experimental.
Sources please. I see you have now changed your argument from the lack of liability to side effects for which you have provided no sources. Myocarditis in young males has been noted as a side effect and is now on a warning label for the vaccines. Blood clots for middle aged women are a possible side effect for J&J and AZ, also documented and made public. You claim "long term disabling medical issues." It's funny that you a non-vaccinated person is making these claims when all of those on here who have been vaccinated have never heard of this and have not experienced any such thing. So once again provide proof and quit fear mongering!

If you would like to discuss disabling long term effects that doctors are struggling to treat, lets talk about something that has been documented by the medical community and sources were provided pages back; Long COVID.
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Old 07-23-2021, 09:05 AM
 
1,462 posts, read 645,452 times
Reputation: 4803
Well, there are some changes coming down the road. Despite unvaccinated people being valued employees, most companies and places of business will always opt for expediency and protecting the bottom line: making $$$. Companies are exploring the option of not 'requiring' that people be vaccinated, but that they must be tested daily an hour before their start time. (possibly at the unvaccinated person's expense, again not wanting to disrupt their profit margins).

The bottom line is that most companies do not want another shutdown and will do what they feel needs to be done to continue to make $$$.
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Old 07-23-2021, 09:37 AM
 
4,053 posts, read 4,790,902 times
Reputation: 3797
Quote:
Originally Posted by lottamoxie View Post
How long is "long enough" for development and for testing?

I hear this as a complaint -- the vaccines were developed "too fast," and weren't tested "long enough."

That's subjective.

How about putting some actual timeframes and specifics, rather than handwaving:

- How long should it take to develop a vaccine?
- What criteria are you using to determine how long it should take?
- How long should it take to thoroughly test?
- What testing processes and steps weren't completed or were altogether bypassed?

FYI, mRNA technology has been in development for at least 2 decades. It wasn't just invented last year. The new piece to this was obtaining the specific DNA sequence for the SARS2 covid virus to create a vaccine targeted to that particular virus and its unique characteristics.

In case people don't realize, the entire human genome was fully decoded 22 years ago (1999). Reaching that one monumental goal has allowed for faster development and targeted therapies ever since.
The mRNA based technology has never been IMPLEMENTED until now on a massive scale so it is still considered experimental. But I'll ask again, why does big pharma need legal liability immunity protection if things are as tested and safe as you claim??
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Old 07-23-2021, 09:43 AM
 
4,053 posts, read 4,790,902 times
Reputation: 3797
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shallow Hal View Post
Well, there are some changes coming down the road. Despite unvaccinated people being valued employees, most companies and places of business will always opt for expediency and protecting the bottom line: making $$$. Companies are exploring the option of not 'requiring' that people be vaccinated, but that they must be tested daily an hour before their start time. (possibly at the unvaccinated person's expense, again not wanting to disrupt their profit margins).

The bottom line is that most companies do not want another shutdown and will do what they feel needs to be done to continue to make $$$.
My company is not requiring mandatory COVID vaccination and wearing masks is optional but are being provided for employees that choose to wear them. Freedom of choice...which is how it should be.
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Old 07-23-2021, 09:59 AM
 
1,462 posts, read 645,452 times
Reputation: 4803
Quote:
Originally Posted by Starglow View Post
My company is not requiring mandatory COVID vaccination and wearing masks is optional but are being provided for employees that choose to wear them. Freedom of choice...which is how it should be.
The movement is underfoot. Not to be cynical, but I'm kinda thinking when push comes to shove, and it's choosing between "freedom of choice" (which you would still have by not being mandated to get the vaccine) and making the most $$$ possible even your company will fold.

Not to be too cynical here, but most companies will do anything to avoid another shutdown. They are aware that their survival as a company may be in true jeopardy. I don't mean to be snarky, but I'm thinking you're young and have an idealistic view of companies and businesses. I'm coming from a background of being raised to acknowledge that everyone is expendable when it comes to employers. I learned that after starting my first job at Friendly's Ice Cream Shop.

Look, everyone really will need to wrap their heads around getting vaccines. But to me, it looks like Covid may be just our "first" rodeo. Sadly, there will be other viruses. Seems to me, and I truly hope I'm wrong, the unvaccinated are just postponing the inevitable.
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Old 07-23-2021, 10:09 AM
 
Location: Where the College Used to Be
3,726 posts, read 2,033,353 times
Reputation: 3029
Quote:
Originally Posted by Starglow View Post
My company is not requiring mandatory COVID vaccination and wearing masks is optional but are being provided for employees that choose to wear them. Freedom of choice...which is how it should be.

Freedom of choice....as a theory in a private business construct? The only real freedom of choice you have is the choice to work there.

What's next, freedom of choice to follow HR policies?

"Ted, you can't use that word at work."

"Nah Tammy, that's my freedom of choice. Deal with it"
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Old 07-23-2021, 10:45 AM
 
17,585 posts, read 15,289,361 times
Reputation: 26363
I'm thankful we didn't have people screaming "fake news!!11!" "It's a hoax!" and "the gov'mnt's putting poison & listening devices in you" when they finally developed vaccines for: small pox, polio, measles, and the antibiotic Penicillin, and then other antibiotics for people allergic to penicillin.

What's weird is people have the opportunity to be or become vastly more educated and knowledgeable, yet if you didn't know better you'd swear some people arrived from the 1700s straight into 2020/21.
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