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Incorrect. Involuntary commitment has a time limit and strict laws - you can't just hold someone indefinitely without ongoing evidence with the current laws. In Europe, your comment makes sense. In American, it doesn't.
Laws regarding involuntary commitment in Europe vary quite a bit from country to country. I don't think the laws regarding that issues are the biggest difference.
Laws regarding involuntary commitment in Europe vary quite a bit from country to country. I don't think the laws regarding that issues are the biggest difference.
Okay? I'm not sure what the point of your post was then. My point was that an IVC in this country has very strict laws regarding patient rights and errs on the side that "you must not take rights away from citizens."
We already know that in 2020, America's "rights" has caused a downside to the COVID-19 pandemic, has made America look stupid, and it also causes a problem with violent patients with mental illness.
WITH THAT SAID, Keep in mind, the MAJORITY of people who are mentally ill are VICTIMS of violence rather than perpetrators of violence.
Okay? I'm not sure what the point of your post was then. My point was that an IVC in this country has very strict laws regarding patient rights and errs on the side that "you must not take rights away from citizens."
We already know that in 2020, America's "rights" has caused a downside to the COVID-19 pandemic, has made America look stupid, and it also causes a problem with violent patients with mental illness.
You seemed to be indicating that in Europe it's easier to involuntary commit people, so my point was you can't compare us to Europe as laws vary quite a bit across countries, and it's not always easier.
Also, comparing this issue to the "muh rights" issue of late is absurd and quite frankly offensive. People with mental illnesses and disabilities were treated absolutely shamefully in the past which is why there was a movement to clearly define rights here and in other countries. This isn't some dumba$$ American thing.
Last edited by ITB_OG; 09-11-2020 at 06:13 PM..
Reason: numerous typos...so many typos!!!
You seemed to be indicating that in Europe it's easier to involuntary commit people, so my point was you can't compare us to Europe as laws vary quite a bit across countries, and it's not always easier.
Also, comparing this issue to the "muh rights" issue of late is absrud and quite franly offensive. People with mental illnesses and disabilities were treated absolutely shamefully in the past which is why there was a movement to clearly define rights here and in other countries. This isn't some dumba$$ American thing.
Me thinks the "muh rights" things is over used and over generalized, especially when I look at dopey college kids playing beer pong. I think "duh, I'm a moron" would be best to describe them. As a matter of fact, if we commit beer pongers, I bet we can really flatten the curve right into the ground.
You seemed to be indicating that in Europe it's easier to involuntary commit people, so my point was you can't compare us to Europe as laws vary quite a bit across countries, and it's not always easier.
Also, comparing this issue to the "muh rights" issue of late is absrud and quite franly offensive. People with mental illnesses and disabilities were treated absolutely shamefully in the past which is why there was a movement to clearly define rights here and in other countries. This isn't some dumba$$ American thing.
Okay, then help everyone explain the fact that America is the laughing stock of the modern developed world for this type of stuff.
I'm sure you do know (right?) that people with very severe mental illness exist in all European countries, but they have a very strong safety net to catch these people.
What do we have in America? Nothing! A medical system that has no money for anyone - and if you DO NOT HAVE MEDICAL INSURANCE, well then you are pretty much f'ing screwed. You will hardly get any homeless services, NO medication assistance for your antipsychotics for more than 14 days and the services just go downhill from there.
Not sure what you're getting at here, but I definitely know more than you about how to treat this type of patient - you have NO IDEA what goes on in the American medical healthcare system for what happened in Cary.
Okay, then help everyone explain the fact that America is the laughing stock of the modern developed world for this type of stuff.
I'm sure you do know (right?) that people with very severe mental illness exist in all European countries, but they have a very strong safety net to catch these people.
What do we have in America? Nothing! A medical system that has no money for anyone - and if you DO NOT HAVE MEDICAL INSURANCE, well then you are pretty much f'ing screwed. You will hardly get any homeless services, NO medication assistance for your antipsychotics for more than 14 days and the services just go downhill from there.
Not sure what you're getting at here, but I definitely know more than you about how to treat this type of patient - you have NO IDEA what goes on in the American medical healthcare system for what happened in Cary.
Whoa there dude. One, if you read my other posts on this thread you will see that we actaully agree more than we disagree. I however think that the effort to establish the rights for people with mental illness and disablities was an effort to protect them from the abuses of forced institutionalization and not just some stupid American thing.
Two, you have NO IDEA what my background and experience is, but you might want to check yourself. I have a background in mental health and a child that has made me acutely aware of the problems with the healthcare system and law enforcement.
Whoa there dude. One, if you read my other posts on this thread you will see that we actaully agree more than we disagree. I however think that the effort to establish the rights for people with mental illness and disablities was an effort to protect them from the abuses of forced institutionalization and not just some stupid American thing.
Two, you have NO IDEA what my background and experience is, but you might want to check yourself. I have a background in mental health and a child that has made me acutely aware of the problems with the healthcare system and law enforcement.
I have a "background" in mental health also - so what? I see our NC citizens firsthand who have a mental health diagnosis, have no insurance, have no money and/or their family has abandoned them and they have absolutely no support to even think about. Where do they go from there- nowhere. There is no money to help these people. And the the "American" ideology to protect people with a mental illness from institutionalization did nothing except take them down even more rungs on the ladder.
These Republicans and conservatives proposed (oh sorry, completed) closing down a 1000+ bed Dorothea Dix with the hope of community support, and NO money was spend on the community support.
I have a "background" in mental health also - so what? I see our NC citizens firsthand who have a mental health diagnosis, have no insurance, have no money and/or their family has abandoned them and they have absolutely no support to even think about. Where do they go from there- nowhere. There is no money to help those people. And the the "American" ideology to protect people with a mental illness from institutionalization did nothing except take them down even more rungs on the ladder.
These Republicans and conservatives proposed closing down a 1000+ bed Dorothea Dix with the hope of community support, and NO money was spend on the community support.
I mentioned my background and my child because you claimed to be the be all end all of knowledge and that I had "NO IDEA" about the issue which was just completely bizarre and super arrogant as you don't know anything about me. I can assure you though, despite what you seem to think, you are not the top authority on the issue and others actually have firsthand knowledge as well.
And much as I would love discussing Dorothea Dix since I grew up nearby when it was still open, I'm not going to go back and forth with you on the institutionalization issue as you seem determined to make it a political issue and an America versus Europe issue rather than a mental health issue.
Last edited by ITB_OG; 09-11-2020 at 07:43 PM..
Reason: typos
Okay, then help everyone explain the fact that America is the laughing stock of the modern developed world for this type of stuff.
I'm sure you do know (right?) that people with very severe mental illness exist in all European countries, but they have a very strong safety net to catch these people.
What do we have in America? Nothing! A medical system that has no money for anyone - and if you DO NOT HAVE MEDICAL INSURANCE, well then you are pretty much f'ing screwed. You will hardly get any homeless services, NO medication assistance for your antipsychotics for more than 14 days and the services just go downhill from there.
Not sure what you're getting at here, but I definitely know more than you about how to treat this type of patient - you have NO IDEA what goes on in the American medical healthcare system for what happened in Cary.
Quote:
Originally Posted by HouseBuilder328
I have a "background" in mental health also - so what? I see our NC citizens firsthand who have a mental health diagnosis, have no insurance, have no money and/or their family has abandoned them and they have absolutely no support to even think about. Where do they go from there- nowhere. There is no money to help these people. And the the "American" ideology to protect people with a mental illness from institutionalization did nothing except take them down even more rungs on the ladder.
These Republicans and conservatives proposed (oh sorry, completed) closing down a 1000+ bed Dorothea Dix with the hope of community support, and NO money was spend on the community support.
FYI - The Governor was not a Republican and the Mayor was not a Republican when they shut down the hospital.
As far as the lack of health insurance goes, that was corrected in 2010 I am told. At this point we need a plan. A real plan on how to handle the mental health issues. It's very complicated.
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