Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
I posed this question in the general Triangle COVID thread, but it probably makes more sense as a standalone discussion. My post, as copied below, really speaks to the question I have and will leave it unaltered to at least get this topic going.
A question for the board's members who have been in this area longer than I. I will grant this question is political, in the dictionary definition of the word (i.e. "how a society governs") but isn't meant to be "political" in Bo's use of the term above; i.e. mud slinging/blame game.
Do people here believe that COVID has exposed the "macro is just too big" situation as it pertains to county based schools? And if so, is there any traction to the idea of moving away from them to get to a more manageable, micro scale (in a vacuum, I obviously realize there is a ton of financial things that go to that discussion. This is simply a thought exercise)
From my seat, and everyone knows my position on this, I would happily pay twice the property tax I do currently so I could tell the rest of Wake Co. to kiss my grundle....but do people see that idea getting any traction now that an external force has largely thrown the norm of school for a complete whirlwind?
Alternatively, do people see a situation like what has happened in the Cincinnati OH school districts since the 1950s happening here? Namely, where the public school become basically the schools for the less well to do and anyone making over ~60K sends their kids to a Private school? To give someone a flavor, the Catholic School league in Cincinnati (St. X, Elder, Ursuline, Ursula, Moeller, Villa, Mount Notre Dame, La Salle, Roger Bacon, Purcell to name handful) are basically the the "baseline options" for almost any family in the burbs.
I realize there are perhaps historical reasons for a County based approach.
1. Counties are a far more important "concept" in the South vs. the North, and as such school falling under that level of hierarchy makes/made sense.
2. It was perhaps the best way to combat historical racial inequality.
3. It is more cost effective (from a tax base POV) when compared regional/town based schools. I would argue you don't have to tax like SW CT, NY/Long Island/NJ, or even parts of MA do to have high quality regional/town based schools. But there is no doubt taxes, in the form of property taxes, would have to go up to support it.
4. Given the current assignment maps (at least near where I am, I can't speak for all of the Triangle) the moving of students around to achieve equality (socio-economic, racial etc) already has some achievement. What does the county approach bring above and beyond that?
5. Is the county simply "too big to fail"? We already see the goofiness when it snows. An icy road in HS shuts downs schools for 160K kids, while it is cold, but no snow here in WF, leaving parents scratching their heads.
From my personal POV, even while I consider myself Liberal (especially when it comes to Education), and see Public School as a vital wheel of investment in our future, I also maintain the seemingly contradictory view that scale and school can work against one another. Whats good for one state doesn't necessarily work for another. Same "theory" applies to smaller geographic areas. If Cary wants to invest more in their schools than say Garner, well that is the will of the people in that locale.
So has COVID put a pin in the viability of County based schools long term? Has it exposed questions/frustrations/desires to seek alternative ideas for those in the community?
Looking forward to some, hopefully, vibrant discussion.
From my seat, and everyone knows my position on this, I would happily pay twice the property tax I do currently so I could tell the rest of Wake Co. to kiss my grundle....but do people see that idea getting any traction now that an external force has largely thrown the norm of school for a complete whirlwind
I prefer to do away with the county based model and bring it to a more specific location model. That would be more expensive, so maybe a hybrid model would be best. Allow individual towns to have more say in how they operate their schools, rather than a one size fits all very poorly model.
Yes, I get the area is severely tax adverse which all but kneecaps this convo.
I just don't know where the proverbial straw is.
For example, if the frustrations COVID has brought about (and thus the reaction/action of various school boards) what good is there for the area as a whole if there is a mass exodus to Private schools? I am not bashing Private Schools (I went to one and wish daily I could send both my kids to the school I went to).
But if "private becomes the new baseline" that, I would argue, hurts an area and drives more towards the very things a county based system "tries to fight" as it were.
Yup. Born and raised in NC, been here all my life except for one year and I do not think Wake County is going to change from a county-based school system. We used to have a lot of city vs county school systems in NC, but they have almost all been merged*. There was a big ol' sh*t show with Tedesco and co on the Wake County School Board about 10 years ago that made national news and I do not think Wake County is looking to repeat that or go backwards to split up the system.
*Orange County Schools and Chapel Hill Carrboro City Schools have talked about merging several times, but the county schools (which are not quite as high achieving or quite as well funded, but still good schools) do not want to merge with CHCCS because it would mean raising taxes for county residents.
But if "private becomes the new baseline" that, I would argue, hurts an area and drives more towards the very things a county based system "tries to fight" as it were.
Yes, I get the area is severely tax adverse which all but kneecaps this convo.
I just don't know where the proverbial straw is.
For example, if the frustrations COVID has brought about (and thus the reaction/action of various school boards) what good is there for the area as a whole if there is a mass exodus to Private schools? I am not bashing Private Schools (I went to one and wish daily I could send both my kids to the school I went to).
But if "private becomes the new baseline" that, I would argue, hurts an area and drives more towards the very things a county based system "tries to fight" as it were.
there has been a whole lot of movement to private schools this year.
A bit anecdotal, so to speak, but then you'd find almost every Raleigh private school is full and unable to take any new students and have a waiting list (now, 1 family might easily be on multiple waiting lists).
As far as I've heard, it's all been because of Covid and in-school teaching. And not necessarily feeling "safer" in private school setting, rather the fact they are actually holding school in person.
As to what Covid means to county-wide system, I think it "helps". Instead of cancelling school county-wide because some 27587 roads still have ice, now they can just make those schools virtual for a day or 3, right? The system, software, infrastructure is in place.
In the South, especially the way NC has gone, you're going to see county-wide systems predominantly because of desegregation. That's simply not going to change. Right now a huge part of the national conversation is unequal funding of minority-dominated schools.
Wake County Commissioners aren't going to allow 8% Black Cary - and I ONLY use Black because that's easy to find vs FnR by city - to split off and leave 21% Wake County, 29% Raleigh, 29% Garner to deal with educating the underprivileged.
Nevermind, how is Cary going to afford to build all those schools? How much would Cary taxes have to increase to buy or long-term lease the buildings from Wake Co?
One option that I would like to see explored is a baseline cost per student, and then an additional payment by FnR %'s by school. What that means in principle is that "rich Cary non-FnR schools" might get $5K/student and "majority FnR schools in east Raleigh" might get $10K/student. I don't think that would ever fly in Cary though.
Are there any Charter (not Private) schools that are currently open in Wake County? People always like to say "Wake is too big" on snow/rain/wind days, but then most of the Charter schools end up closing also. So the "Wake is too big" argument doesn't persuade me too much. But I am curious to know what Charter schools are doing with respect to rona.
But if "private becomes the new baseline" that, I would argue, hurts an area and drives more towards the very things a county based system "tries to fight" as it were.
I've heard this before, but it's something I don't get. I'm blessed to be in a position to send my kid to private school (I'm not anti-public school, there are plusses and minuses to both, and each kid is different). I obviously pay the same property taxes but Wake County has one less kid to teach. Isn't that a positive to the County, same revenue, less cost?
Now let's just do vouchers and be done with it...kidding....kidding.....I know it's not the place for that discussion :-)
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
