Bye Bye Cameron Village (Clinton, Welcome: transplants, crime rate, lawyer)

[Poggly Woggly]

Originally Posted by MikeJaquish

I have really nearly halted my hot dog consumption. Generally, just binging off the grill on Memorial Day, maybe Independence Day.
But.... At Harris Teeter, when I see the 1/4 pound Nathans, temptation is severe. If I could just but 2 or 3 of them.

But, hey!
May and July are on the calendar this year!

Good for you Mike. I’m doing much better. We do dearly love our hot dog, and we’re now at about once a month...two dogs each.

[rnc2mbfl]

Originally Posted by ozmoe571

A certain poster on here has a habit of commenting on any topic and twisting it somehow into blaming "SJWs" for all the perceived ills and evils in the world. It's their shtick to whine this way constantly.

For the rest of us, the change will happen and we'll get used to using it and go on with our lives not worrying about it. For example, I have no problem saying that I may fly to New York through Kennedy (or JFK, if you prefer) or to D.C. through Reagan, and I sincerely doubt most people still call them Idlewild or National. If it makes certain people feel better to still keep calling it Cameron Village, that indicates to me their insecurities more than anything else.

I think that it's going to be an age thing as well. If you have several decades of calling something one thing, it's hard to make that change.
When I went to State, my girlfriend's father was still calling it State College. There's probably some old-timers who still do today.

[JONOV]

Originally Posted by ITB_OG

While I’m not going to get into the merits of that statement, I am curious what it is about Cameron that makes him more villainous than others. Admittedly, I haven’t delved deep into the research, but what I saw didn’t indicate anything worse than many others we don’t tend to erase from places.

I think that it's generally the lack of accomplishment of anything except being wealthy by way of owning your labor source.

Thomas Jefferson was a diplomat, a statesman, the writer of the Declaration of Independence.

[ITB_OG]

Originally Posted by JONOV

I think that it's generally the lack of accomplishment of anything except being wealthy by way of owning your labor source.

Thomas Jefferson was a diplomat, a statesman, the writer of the Declaration of Independence.

Jefferson was a pedophile and rapist in addition to being wealthy by way of owning his labor source. While Cameron also gained wealth by enslaving people, on a local level, he was rather accomplished. He also donated the land that became Oberlin Village to emancipated people. I think it’s worth examining the hypocrisy that comes into play when people start clucking about the depravity of some people while being willing to accept or at least gloss over the sins of others.

I’m not advocating that Regency shouldn’t have changed the name of the shopping center, but hearing Mary-Ann Baldwin already talking about spending time and money to rename a road and saying this all sends a message to “other business and entities” has me thinking this isn’t over. Given that we have such a complicated history, I question the value of such changes although some of the changes that have happened lately were long overdue.

[NYC2RDU]

Originally Posted by rfb

George Washington, Thomas Jefferson, James Madison, James Monroe, Andrew Jackson, Willian Harrison, John Tyler, James Polk, Zachary Taylor, Andrew Johnson, Ulysses Grant, Martin Van Buren. All slave holders. All presidents. Removing mention of these men will require a lot of changes, from renaming the US Capital, Washington state, universities, memorials, Mount Rushmore, streets, schools, etc. Slavery within the US was an abomination, and I'm not advocating celebrating it, but I'm also not going to dismiss the good many of these contributed to the US.

Maybe, maybe not. I see a clear delineation between slave owners and people who were proponents of slavery, I have several affected friends who share a similar view. Granted it's a subjective sampling, and potentially not as representative as I might be inclined to believe, but just the same, I'm supportive of exploring that avenue as a means to a path forward.

In many ways, George Washington was a voice for ending slavery and without making a bold declaration, took steps to free those that he owned. Many of our founding fathers were in a similar place, where they were born into a world where they were directly dependent on slaves but felt it morally wrong.

[BoBromhal]

Originally Posted by rnc2mbfl

I think that it's going to be an age thing as well. If you have several decades of calling something one thing, it's hard to make that change.
When I went to State, my girlfriend's father was still calling it State College. There's probably some old-timers who still do today.

there are indeed. Same for St Mary's College, even though it's been only "School" for > 10 years now. Falls of Neuse vs Falls of the Neuse. The ESA or even RBC.

[BoBromhal]

Originally Posted by wizard-xyzzy

The City annexed the Oberlin community but provided very few City services (water, sewer, etc). Of course, Oberlin was not the only African-American neighborhood to be treated that way. In general the City conspired with banks and developers to redline those neighborhoods and keep them second-class areas.

When the City authorized construction of Cameron Village (oops, the Village District) the streets around Oberlin were redesigned. In the process the Oberlin community was split and some of the homes were taken by eminent domain. You can bet that no white folks' homes were taken in that project. Same story when Wade Ave as we know it today was built in the mid-1960s. (Residents of Hayti in Durham had the same thing happen to them when the Durham Freeway was built.)

Then the City began to rezone parts of the community as O&I, with little or no input from the residential land owners. In some respects, Oberlin was one of the first Raleigh neighborhoods to be gentrified -- although nobody thought of it that way back then, and certainly nobody in power was concerned about the impact on the African-American property owners. It's my understanding that only four houses and two churches have been designed Raleigh Historic Landmarks. Heck, if this was Mordecai (from which black folks were essentially ejected) there would be a zoning overlay and the whole area would have been declared historic. Nor has the City has shown interest in resolving the issues around the 3-acre Oberlin cemetery.

do cities typically commence Historic Registry action of "neighborhoods", or owners/residents? Att least in the last 30 years, it seems residents/owners do.

similarly the City didn't rezone parts of the community, but yes, rezoning applications were approved.

I've found a couple of names those interested should learn more about:

F. Bevers, Surveyor
Raleigh Co-operative Land & Building Association
Oberlin Friendly Link Association

What are the issues around the Cemetery?

[BoBromhal]

Originally Posted by pierretong1991

One example would be criminal justice reform - it is shocking how many people we lock up for minor crimes or nonviolent offenses. Once you're in the prison system, you're pretty much doomed to a cycle of poverty and crime. At the least, if we can keep juveniles out of this system as much as possible, the more these people are able to support themselves and their families (the whole "war on drugs" is just stupid, 1 in 5 African Americans spend time behind bars due to drug laws)

I'm not sure whether the #is 1 in 5 or not, but we certainly need the criminal justice reform so folks aren't serving sentences for small-time drug charges, and are forever tainted economically because of it. It's pretty enlightening to, for example, see the mugshots for possession and FTA-possession. We've got to figure out fines/community service instead.

[BoBromhal]

Originally Posted by MikeJaquish

A poignant and pertinent question with potential for prickliness!

Some will say Hebrew National. Some will say Jesse James. Some might say Sabrett. Boar's Head. Nathans.
Oscar Meyer. Ball Park.

Then we have to additionally consider whether they come with onions, sauerkraut, chili(with or without beans), mustard, pickles or relish.
Are they defiled with ketchup or catsup?
Is the bun toasted?

This may make the pizza debate look simple and civilized!

I don't know about PA, but if NC you meant Jesse Jones.

And there should be no sauerkraut in the South except for Reubens. Someone's mentioned slaw.

Mustard, chili (no beans), onions unless somehow that's a dog whistle. That's the standard NC order.

Pickles? Like those Chicago dogs? Sure, if you're eating a Chicago dog. Sweet or dill relish, doesn't matter cause nobody specifies, it's allowed. Usually sweet.

Ketchup if your single-digits.

[NC Observer]

Why do we need to continue to live in the past ?

If we have to rename Cameron Village, then Oberlin Village would be the logical name.