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Old 12-23-2021, 09:36 AM
 
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Just got this information from where this project stands. FYI, it's a planned passenger train route for approximately 37 miles from West Durham to Clayton that would largely parallel existing lines for other trains in those areas. Here's what's planned to happen in 2022:
  • Receive the rail network simulation results from Norfolk Southern. If the results suggest a need to change the commuter rail project’s proposed infrastructure or service plans, managers will propose adjustments for Norfolk Southern to evaluate.  
  • Have recommendations for how to approach the downtown station areas and how to comply with the ADA. 
  • Complete analysis of how the commuter rail project would increase opportunities in terms of affordable housing, economic benefits, travel markets and land use. GoTriangle’s consultant team and the Triangle J Council of Governments are collaborating on this work. 
  • Update estimates on ridership, capital costs and implementation schedules to reflect new information.
 
When completed, this study phase should indicate whether the project is technically, financially, legally and politically achievable. If so, the governing bodies would then vote on whether to proceed with the project and apply for entrance into the federal Capital Investments Grants pipeline to help pay for it. 

Those wanting more updates can click on the link below.

https://www.readyforrailnc.com
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Old 12-23-2021, 09:59 AM
 
Location: Raleigh, NC
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ozmoe571 View Post
Jfrom West Durham to Clayton that would largely parallel existing lines for other trains in those areas.
Nothing going to the airport ?
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Old 12-23-2021, 10:13 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by don6170 View Post
Nothing going to the airport ?
*head explodes*
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Old 12-23-2021, 10:20 AM
DPK
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by don6170 View Post
Nothing going to the airport ?
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Old 12-23-2021, 10:25 AM
 
Location: Durm
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I'd definitely take it to downtown Raleigh sometimes, for fun. I never go there because it's just a pain to drive it and park, especially when there's an event that makes parking a challenge.
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Old 12-23-2021, 10:39 AM
 
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"The most frequent question they get about the rail project, Wheeler said, is about getting to the airport."

source:
https://spectrumlocalnews.com/nc/cha...project-stands






but I'll do it again here so sit down....

Last edited by K4GPB; 12-23-2021 at 11:30 AM..
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Old 12-23-2021, 11:22 AM
 
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I have discussed this before here, on Twitter, and elsewhere, but I'll do it again here so sit down.

First of all, RDU will be connected to the rail line by shuttle buses.

But as for a direct rail link to RDU, this is something that seems like a "no brainer" as long as you haven't actually thought about it AT ALL. But as soon as you sit down and actually think about what it would take to make it work for even 30 seconds, it becomes immediately clear it isn't such a no brainer at all. Turns out there are many reasons why rail to the airport at RDU doesn't make sense, even though it does sometimes make sense in places like Atlanta.

The main reason here centers around the fact that there are three things between Raleigh and Durham: RDU, the population center of Cary, and the jobs in RTP. Because of our regional geography (The location of RDU, RTP, Cary relative to each other, the alignment of the existing rail line, as well as the location of Umstead as well as the orientation of the runways at RDU, there is no practical way to serve all three with a single line. You can get at most two. Believe me, I've tried. Feel free to whip out a map, a crayon, and give it a try. Not possible. Here's what it looked like when I tried to figure it out:



Turns out that RDU is both the least important, and by far the most difficult and expensive of the three to serve - so it gets axed. It's the most expensive because you have to divert from the existing rail line for an absolute minimum of 7 miles, more likely 10 or 15 (literally half the distance from Raleigh to Durham.) But why is it the least important?
  1. The bread and butter of transit are those who ride it habitually - at least a few times a week. The most frequent fliers of all, fly (at most) weekly - and they are very few in number especially post-COVID.
  2. The people who fly the most frequently are all on business accounts, and they can just expense the uber or the parking fee. So they won't use transit.
  3. Airport rail links DO, however, tend to be popular popular among airport employees - but there's only a couple thousand of those (compared with 200,000 residents in Cary+Morrisville, or 50,000+ jobs in RTP), and many of them have shifts that start and end at odd hours that are tough to cover with transit like 4am.
  4. For the occasional fliers, traffic here is basically No Big Deal compared to other places, so there's not enough of an incentive for them to have to deal with schedules and figure out and learn to ride a train for the first time, just to get to the airport for their ~2 flights per year. They'll just pay for the Uber or park in one of the lots.

"B..bbb..b.b.b.b...b..but... Atlanta!" you will say

Yeah, I know. Atlanta has a rail link to their airport and it's nice.

Why that's different:
  1. ATL has like a billion destinations and plays a much bigger role Atlanta's regional economy than RDU does here.
  2. ATL is inconveniently located on the opposite side of downtown from the northern suburbs where most people live, through some of the worst traffic in the country. MARTA provides a low-stress, uncongested way to get there. RDU is conveniently located smack in the middle of our region
  3. The land-side terminal at ATL is well thought out, designed from day one with a rail link in mind - being on the outer perimeter of the airport, connected to the air-side terminals by an underground train. Our landside terminals are borderline unplanned, having grown organically over time and being trapped between the two main runways.
  4. The land-side terminal at ATL is less than a quarter mile from the rail line that MARTA follows. The RDU terminal is about 3.5 miles *at its closest* from the existing Raleigh-Durham rail line.
  5. ATL is at the *end of the line* - they didn't have to detour or bypass anything to serve it. We would have to bypass either Cary or RDU to do it.

"Bbbb..b.b.b..b.b.but I heard it's just that RDU doesn't want to lose parking revenue to the rail line!"
DEBUNKED - False since 1999!

Last edited by orulz; 12-23-2021 at 11:33 AM..
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Old 12-23-2021, 01:49 PM
 
Location: Raleigh, NC
5,780 posts, read 6,831,089 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by orulz View Post
First of all, RDU will be connected to the rail line by shuttle buses.
They can use those same shuttle buses to take people from the rail stations to each of the businesses in RTP, which was founded assuming there would be lots of green space. Sure, walking a half mile from station to your office is nice on a warm sunny day. Try it in inclement weather.

Sorry - rail service here is like a round peg in a square hole. Unfortunately, a lot of people here want to do that.

And yes, I grew up watching MARTA being built in Atlanta.
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Old 12-23-2021, 02:32 PM
 
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I lived in Atlanta when both the MARTA rail system and the "Midfield Terminal" at Hartsfield-Jackson were built. The airport is the second-busiest station on the MARTA rail system, but you have to remember that the airport and its tenants employ over 50,000 people. It's no overstatement to say that Hartsfield-Jackson is to Atlanta what RTP is to Raleigh-Durham.

The two projects had a complex history. At the time of the 1971 referendum that funded MARTA rail, the Midfield Terminal project had not been committed to. The 1971 version of the MARTA rail map had the 1961 airport terminal as a stop on a line from East Point to Hapeville, Forest Park, and southern Clayton County. Two things changed this. One, Clayton County voted against joining MARTA. Two, the Midfield Terminal project came along.

Clayton County did reverse its decision in 2014, but MARTA has virtually given up on heavy rail into Clayton County because Norfolk Southern won't negotiate reasonable access to their right of way or a buyout. Triangle residents are very fortunate that the state-owned NCRR has control of its right of way, not Norfolk Southern. This may turn out to be tremendous serendipity.
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Old 12-23-2021, 06:55 PM
 
Location: Washington DC
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So if I understand correctly, the commuter train would share a track with Norfolk Southern? That is a huge bummer if so.

I’d love to see Raleigh have commuter rail like Denver where the trains look like typical metro cars & service be as frequent as 15 minutes peak hour and 30 minutes off peak. Or at least have a train peak 30 minutes and an hour off peak.

Here is Denver’s commuter train:



Being that the end of the lines would be anchored by two large areas, all-day/all-week service should work (unlike other cities where commuter train is usually 5 or so trains into the city in the morning and 5 back on the evening with limited Saturday service and no Sunday service)
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