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Old 01-27-2022, 07:10 AM
 
Location: Raleigh NC
25,115 posts, read 16,310,226 times
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the Lincoln/Frederick Douglass snafu has not been passed into law. It's in a committee, where presumably the error will be corrected.

https://lis.virginia.gov/cgi-bin/leg...?221+sum+HB781

 
Old 01-27-2022, 07:12 AM
 
Location: Where the College Used to Be
3,732 posts, read 2,073,522 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BoBromhal View Post
the Lincoln/Frederick Douglass snafu has not been passed into law. It's in a committee, where presumably the error will be corrected.

https://lis.virginia.gov/cgi-bin/leg...?221+sum+HB781
phew, thats a relief.

I do find it interesting they include "excerpts from Alexis de Tocqueville's Democracy in America"....I wonder what excerpts they will include? There are large swaths of that book that all but outright chit on the South.... those almost certainly won't make the cut.

Then again, if you have Simple Jack writing the verbiage of the bill, as presented to date, maybe there's a chance.
 
Old 01-27-2022, 08:24 AM
 
428 posts, read 227,599 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GVoR View Post
I wasn't here for the Tata stuff (or what proceeded it), although I have heard both of those names mentioned.

To my knowledge we haven't locally reached the banning books about the Holocaust (just happened yesterday in a county in TN), shut down a teacher conference about Civil Rights in the name of CRT (district in FL), created hotlines and police forces to go after public school teachers who touch on "divisive subjects" (VA) or broach the subject of sexual identity in Jr. HS kids (FL, when do people think humans start to realize their sexuality?) or countering "CRT" with either made up history (Lincoln/Frederick Douglass debates; codified in a VA law) or writing assignments to justify the Trail of Tears (GA) phase of the lunacy yet.

I like to think reasonable people can agree that "hey, we probably don't want our school boards so woke they've jumped the shark" but that the alternative is equally undesirable. When folks like Christopher Rufo have so little shame, they say the quiet part proudly out loud, and seemingly the ear wig he has gone with, is resonating, we gots problems...

CRT is a college course. College courses are electives. One could go K through BA/BS and never take it. No one is coming to teach my kids that they are somehow inherently evil because of the physiology they were born with...but the perception being created (and driving this push on the school boards now) is that that is one aspect of reality, and to steal ITB's phase, the pendulum swing back (its really an over swing in US politics, nothing is really correctively subtle) is actually really happening and is less than ideal from this readers perspective. I want my kids to to learn about the good, bad and really ugly of history; ours or not. I want them to see and read many perspectives on events to hone their critical analysis skills. I don't need them fed rah rah BS about us being perfect; because we aren't and we never have been. If my kid can't learn about Civil Rights, they don't need to write essays justifying the Trail of Tears....and I say this as someone whose 8th grade World Studies teacher wrote a letter home to my folks because "I was Hitler like in my ability to get people to believe evil things" because during a debate on the justification of the Nuclear Bombs in WW2, I got everyone in the class but one kid to switch their "support" to the pro position of the discussion. Never mind that that teacher ended up being one of the most evil people the FBI ever had on their list (another story for another thread)....so I consider the source, and smile.

And this overlays perfectly (I think) with this topic. Some dude; an "Education Consultant focusing on educational equality" ("zomg...th...tha.....that sounds like race. Nooooooooooooo!") wins a seat he wasn't able to hold (residency) and the whistleblower's candidacy twitter handle, is ID'd through the algorithm (based on who likes and comments on her handle) as similar to people with #PureBlood in their handles. She she could just be "concerned citizen, busting up shady dealings in the name of righteousness"....but Computer AI models assume she's anything but that.
I’m all out of reps for you, but I thought the following quote would go nicely here:

“Cram them full of noncombustible data, chock them so … full of ‘facts’ they feel stuffed, but absolutely ‘brilliant’ with information. Then they’ll feel they’re thinking, they’ll get a sense of motion without moving. And they’ll be happy, because facts of that sort don’t change. Don’t give them any slippery stuff like philosophy or sociology to tie things up with. That way lies melancholy.” F451
 
Old 01-27-2022, 08:46 AM
 
Location: Where the College Used to Be
3,732 posts, read 2,073,522 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AppyHeel View Post
I’m all out of reps for you, but I thought the following quote would go nicely here:

“Cram them full of noncombustible data, chock them so … full of ‘facts’ they feel stuffed, but absolutely ‘brilliant’ with information. Then they’ll feel they’re thinking, they’ll get a sense of motion without moving. And they’ll be happy, because facts of that sort don’t change. Don’t give them any slippery stuff like philosophy or sociology to tie things up with. That way lies melancholy.” F451
I'm actually shocked Ray's book isn't on the chopping block. I can remember vividly reading it in 7th grade English and asking what in the sweet hell is this!
 
Old 01-27-2022, 09:21 AM
 
Location: under the beautiful Carolina blue
22,742 posts, read 36,999,081 times
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I kinda know Karen and she is very quiet and unassuming but she's been going to board meetings since I can remember and she doesn't take any crap - she's not gonna be loud about it but she has ALWAYS called out bad behavior.
 
Old 01-27-2022, 09:26 AM
 
Location: under the beautiful Carolina blue
22,742 posts, read 36,999,081 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GVoR View Post
I'm actually shocked Ray's book isn't on the chopping block. I can remember vividly reading it in 7th grade English and asking what in the sweet hell is this!
That's when DD read it and had same reaction. She is still complaining about it LOL.
 
Old 01-28-2022, 08:25 AM
 
59 posts, read 32,377 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GVoR View Post
To my knowledge we haven't locally reached the banning books about the Holocaust (just happened yesterday in a county in TN)
...

CRT is a college course. College courses are electives. One could go K through BA/BS and never take it.

To be fair, Maus wasn't banned. It was removed from a particular curriculum, to be replaced with another book about the Holocaust. Unnecessary, yes. Foolish, prudish concern about nudity and swears, yes. Not as bad as the current firestorm would suggest, though.


On CRT, sure, direct teaching of CRT may not be common in K-12 schools (though sometimes it happens), or even in common college classes, but it's fair to look at how CRT is influencing the pedagogy and curriculum in K-12, in college teaching degree programs, etc.
 
Old 01-28-2022, 09:37 AM
 
Location: Where the College Used to Be
3,732 posts, read 2,073,522 times
Reputation: 3074
Quote:
Originally Posted by RedbirdSaint View Post
To be fair, Maus wasn't banned. It was removed from a particular curriculum, to be replaced with another book about the Holocaust. Unnecessary, yes. Foolish, prudish concern about nudity and swears, yes. Not as bad as the current firestorm would suggest, though.


On CRT, sure, direct teaching of CRT may not be common in K-12 schools (though sometimes it happens), or even in common college classes, but it's fair to look at how CRT is influencing the pedagogy and curriculum in K-12, in college teaching degree programs, etc.
That reads like a distinction for the sake of it and oddly is near verbatim the argument Chris Rufo made. Hmmmm

Sure they voted to “replace it” by removing it from the potential books available on the subject in the district.

If A is on the list of approved books and A is voted removed from the list of approved books….that’s a ban.

Just like smoking was allowed inside and then not allowed. No one alive would say “well we didn’t ban smoking indoors. We simply removed smoking indoors and replaced it with not smoking indoors”

Last edited by GVoR; 01-28-2022 at 09:46 AM..
 
Old 01-28-2022, 10:46 AM
 
59 posts, read 32,377 times
Reputation: 120
Banning books makes me think of pulling them from shelves, though I see your point. But I still think there's been a lot of dishonest framing in the media coverage of the incident. Even keeping the word you prefer, "TN school district bans Holocaust book" parses very differently than "TN school district bans, replaces one book from Holocaust curriculum".
 
Old 01-28-2022, 11:34 AM
 
428 posts, read 227,599 times
Reputation: 972
Quote:
Originally Posted by RedbirdSaint View Post
Banning books makes me think of pulling them from shelves, though I see your point. But I still think there's been a lot of dishonest framing in the media coverage of the incident. Even keeping the word you prefer, "TN school district bans Holocaust book" parses very differently than "TN school district bans, replaces one book from Holocaust curriculum".
Dishonest framing? That pretty much sums up the entire current ‘grassroots’ movement to ban books from our public schools.
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