E85 Stations in Triangle (Raleigh, Durham: how much, neighbourhood, buying)

[Grawburg]

A week ago I had never heard of this stuff. Then I saw E85 mentioned on CNN as the fuel used in cars in Brazil. Apparently it doesn't have any gasoline in it (or just a little) and is made from sugar cane ethanol. All of the their cars use it in Brazil and its cheaper than gas.

Now, I personally think all of this global warming stuff is nonsense. But if I can save money using this stuff that works for me. Now I find out there's a gas station in Durham that sells it.

It's about $3.10 per gallon here in NC, but is some states it's $1.25 CHEAPER than regular gas.

Since I'm looking for a car, I go to a place yesterday and they have a Dodge Stratus that uses the stuff - it's called flex fuel.

Am I late to the game here? Anyone else know about E85?

[MrsSteel]

Yes, you're late to the game. About 2 years ago there were tons of ads on television about E85 ethanol. There has been talk of making it from sugar cane or switchgrass, but most of the talk involves using corn.

Lately I have heard a lot of criticism of ethanol. There are certainly conflicting opinions out there. If you do a search for more information, you'll find an endless number of articles about it.

[MI-Roger]

E85 capable vehicles have been available in the US for 10 years. The "E" stands for Ethanol, the "85" stands for 85%, gasoline makes up the remaining 15% of the fuel. E85 fuel is still very rare and found primarily in the "grain belt" because the ethanol has all been made from grain stocks to date. It is also usually available only at stations affiliated with Farm Co-Ops, and not the major gasoline brands. (sounds like an opportunity for a conspiracy theory)

Vehicles typically comsume 15% to 20% more fuel when burning E85 as compared to burning 100% gasoline because the fuel contains less energy per gallon. E85 does have a higher octane number which means some vehicles with very sophisticated engine management computers can develop more horsepower when burning E85 (the $800 conversion kit for my 8 year-old Saab will boost it from 170 to 230 horsepower). The cost per gallon savings of E85 compared to 100% gasoline do not always justify its use when you consider you will be buying 15% to 20% more fuel.

As an example, I currently consume approximately 1,000 gallons of fuel per year while commuting 27,000+ miles to/from work. At $4/gallon this equates to $4,000. Subtract the cost of the conversion kit from this total fuel cost, divide the remaining $3,200 by 1,150 gallons of fuel (assuming a 15% mileage penalty), and my current gasoline costs equate to an E85 cost of $2.78/gallon. Translation - I would have to be able to purchase E85 for less than $2.78/gallon to save money in the first year. If a two year pay-back is acceptable to me, my maximum allowable cost for E85 rises to $3.13/gallon. Barely a savings at the $3.10 price you found, and I would have to purchase E85 with every fill-up.

At least two nations, Brazil and Sweden, are actively promoting use of E85 or E100 (100% ethanol) as a fuel for vehicles. Brazil has sugar cane which can be converted into ethanol and Sweden is planning to use renewable forest scrap materials for its ethanol feed stock.

In my opinion, the jury is still out regarding how much sense E85 makes as a fuel for automobiles. If cellulosic ethanol can be economically produced (meaning ethanol generated from plant materials other than food grains), then E85 may make sense.

[AndreaF1]

The gas station at the end of my neighbourhood in Durham (Sedwick and 55) has been selling it for at least 2 years. They had a giant BBQ and media event when they started.

[Grawburg]

Interesting - the show made it sound like E85 was only sugar cane. I didn't realize that corn (with all the associated fallout with food prices, etc...) could be part of that 85 as well.

[wanderintonc]

Grawberg-have you looked into bi-fuel cars? Those run on gasoline and compressed natural gas. The CNG is low-priced in Raleigh-be aware that there are limited places to fill it. I don't have one myself-I lost out on buying one the other day, by mere hours. I bought a regular gas car instead for commuting (as the CNG costs much more here in CT than NC, like most everything else LOL), that will be my teen's car next year.

[NedB]

Originally Posted by Grawburg

Interesting - the show made it sound like E85 was only sugar cane. I didn't realize that corn (with all the associated fallout with food prices, etc...) could be part of that 85 as well.

The US uses corn as its source for ethanol. The increasing use of corn in the US has resulted in a growing increase in the cost of corn and thus the cost of many of our foodstuffs since corn is a base for so many foods that we purchase. The supply of corn has not kept up with the increasing demand for corn due to ethanol production. There are different types of corn with varying costs of production. Corn for ethanol production can be of the low quality (with respect to being edible) and therfore low cost, so farmers are finding that it is more profitable to produce corn for ethanol than for human consumption and are adjusting their crops accordingly.

I am all for pursuing fuel alternatives, including ethanol, but am not fond of using corn as a source for ethanol since it is such a vital food source. If we could grow sugarcane in the US, that would be great - we consume too much sugar as a food ingredient in the US anyway. There are other potential sources for ethanol too including, possibly, what the Swedes are using.

You can find a list of gas stations that supply E85 here: E85 Fuel Stations and here: Alternative Fuel Station Locator - Find

Unfortunately, it appears there are far less gas stations offering E85 in North Carolina than the last time I checked two years ago.