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Hello! OK, frequent posters here know that we've been researching the area, asking all the questions about schools, weather, traffic, etc. We drove 8 hours through freezing rain to get to R-D on Sunday night. We ONLY stayed for a day and a half, so I KNOW we didn't see everything. That said, here are my impressions:
1. Checked out Durham to get a real idea of what it is like. We did not see any gangs or prostitutes on street corners, but weren't cruising the streets after dark, either. We stayed in a hotel in Durham, and we generally liked the city. We checked out North Gate Mall, just seemed to be a quiet neighborhood mall with the usual people. We liked the area around Duke, the usual college-type hangouts and the neighborhoods immediately around the university were nice with unique houses that were way out of our price range. We did wander into the "seedy" parts of town as we got on Wake Forest Hwy. The area around the Research Triangle Park (that we saw) seemed to be a little desolate and rundown.
Bottom line: If we didn't have children, we would be more inclined to invest in a nice house and take a chance that the neighborhoods would be improving with the rest of the city. I liked all the brick accents everywhere in Durham.
2. Traffic - Nonexistant! Ok, we were driving around at non-peak times, but seriously, there was no traffic! We were on the inner and outer belt-lines around 10 AM and 4 PM - nothing. It took about 18 minutes to go from Durham to Capital Ave (Hwy 1) on the eastern side of Raleigh! Compared to traffic in Atlanta and Marietta, GA, traffic is a non-issue as far as we're concerned in Raleigh! We also drove from Durham over to Wake Forest via 98, and saw very few cars. Then we went from Wake Forest down to Raleigh via Hwy 1, and didn't see any heavy traffic.
Some of the freeways are a little confusing to access, but we didn't have a big problem getting around. We did a big circle and went from Durham to Wake Forest to Raleigh to Cary and back to Durham in a day, including random tours through residential areas.
3. Activities. We saw a lot of parks, but didnt' have time to check out the Falls Lake area. We didn't see a lot of children's activities, but we know we couldn't see EVERYTHING! I need to see if the area has a big amusement park or water park. I think I saw a children's discovery museum in downtown Raleigh.
4. Housing. We're looking at the low end of the housing, so we know we're limited. Again, I know we didn't see everything. However, we liked Cary's neighborhoods and some in Durham and eastern Raleigh. We didn't get to explore the Leesville, Six Forks, Leadmine Rd. area in Raleigh, which was a big disappointment. Wake Forest was pretty isolated, too, despite the conveniences closer to Hwy 1.
ANYWAY, I know everyone is different, but I thought I would share my experience since I know there are a lot of people considering the area sight unseen. Feel free to PM me if you have specific questions.
Also, thanks to the realtors who have been so helpful on this board. We didn't have time to look anyone up while we were there. My husband and I (with our two children) just drove around for hours, and we weren't fit to socialize after bickering over directions and trying to figure out north and south by the path of the sun!
Hahaha..I can certainly relate to bickering while you're driving! My husband, kids (3 of them) and I paid a visit to the Raleigh area in October. Overall, I loved it and didn't want to come back to Florida. But, I will say I was ready to leave my husband and his GPS out on the highway somewhere! LOL We are hoping he is chosen for a job in the next couple of weeks, (his headquarters is located in Raleigh) and we wanted to get an idea of what it was like up there, while the kids were on fall break from school. We loved Raleigh, and everyone was SO sweet, I swear I got a toothache! I'm hoping he gets the job, but I'm still not sure where we'll be living. If you go back there, make sure you visit the Museum of Natural Science in Raleigh...it's AWESOME!!! Well, take care, and thanks for the good laugh!
Those traffic pictures look pretty good compared to the rush hour traffic we have here in D.C.... and our evening rush hour isn't at 5 PM. It lasts from 3:30 PM to 7:30 or 8:00 PM.
Those traffic pictures look pretty good compared to the rush hour traffic we have here in D.C.... and our evening rush hour isn't at 5 PM. It lasts from 3:30 PM to 7:30 or 8:00 PM.
I second that! I spent 30 years communting from Gaithersburg/Germantown, MD to the area near the White House. Traffic in the Triangle is nothing compared to these places ......yet:
The Nation's Worse Traffic
1. Los Angeles, Long Beach, Santa Ana, Calif.
2. San Francisco, Oakland, Calif.
3. Washington, D.C.
4. Atlanta
5. Houston
Those traffic pictures look pretty good compared to the rush hour traffic we have here in D.C.... and our evening rush hour isn't at 5 PM. It lasts from 3:30 PM to 7:30 or 8:00 PM.
Yes, in most of the photos of Raleigh, at least you can see open spots or lanes. Not what I'm used to in Atlanta! Like the pp said, there's never a 'rush hour' in ATL, it's all the time!
Those traffic pictures look pretty good compared to the rush hour traffic we have here in D.C.... and our evening rush hour isn't at 5 PM. It lasts from 3:30 PM to 7:30 or 8:00 PM.
L.A. here. 'Nuff said.
Traffic, at least, moves here. One direction in the morning. One direction in the evening. For at best, 1.5 hours of traffic morning and night.
L.A. Traffic starts at 5:30 AM. Stays continuous, for the most part, in both directions until 8:00 PM. Slight exaggeration depending on what part of the valley, but not too much. And the farther out you must drive from your home to your destination, the chances are exponentially greater that you'll run into one of those crowded freeways.
Here, I've experienced a wonderful commute, even in the so-called traffic. But, it's all relative.
Quote:
Originally Posted by marymel
1. Checked out Durham to get a real idea of what it is like. We did not see any gangs or prostitutes on street corners, but weren't cruising the streets after dark, either. We stayed in a hotel in Durham, and we generally liked the city. We checked out North Gate Mall, just seemed to be a quiet neighborhood mall with the usual people. We liked the area around Duke, the usual college-type hangouts and the neighborhoods immediately around the university were nice with unique houses that were way out of our price range. We did wander into the "seedy" parts of town as we got on Wake Forest Hwy. The area around the Research Triangle Park (that we saw) seemed to be a little desolate and rundown. Bottom line: If we didn't have children, we would be more inclined to invest in a nice house and take a chance that the neighborhoods would be improving with the rest of the city. I liked all the brick accents everywhere in Durham.
The negatives you will hear are generally from those NOT living in the city. Highly exaggerated. But, I don't mind. I'm investing here with the same 'bottom line' thoughts you had. It'll come back. At least once we circulate out the current city management. But when I think of Durham, I think of opportunity. I've seen redevelopment over and over again in the west. Prices are such that it's already happening here.
And, so far, no issues with crime, gangs, etc for us. No where near even a third of Los Angeles. And don't let the hype of the other cities fool you... all cities have their share of the criminal element.
The negatives you will hear are generally from those NOT living in the city. Highly exaggerated. But, I don't mind. I'm investing here with the same 'bottom line' thoughts you had. It'll come back. At least once we circulate out the current city management. But when I think of Durham, I think of opportunity. I've seen redevelopment over and over again in the west. Prices are such that it's already happening here.
And, so far, no issues with crime, gangs, etc for us. No where near even a third of Los Angeles. And don't let the hype of the other cities fool you... all cities have their share of the criminal element.
Right on, CaliBoy. Some interesting stats:
Crime: I posted these on another thread, but they bear repeating. In 2004, the odds of being affected by violent crime (assault, murder, rape, robbery) in Durham were 0.77%, or less than 1 in 100. In that same year, the odds of being affected by violent crime in Wake County were 0.44% (.58% in Raleigh). Statewide, the average is 0.70%. Clayton was a comparatively low 0.30%... but Johnston County as a whole? 0.67%, almost the same as Durham.
Also, since schools come up frequently: There are also some interesting school statistics that provide food for thought. In looking at these, keep in mind that, nationally, white students perform better on standardized tests than some ethnicities/nationalities do. Stats from the Triangle mirror these numbers, but it's interesting to disaggregate stats by ethnicity from "overall" totals, since the overall total will tend to bias the total school system average rather than reflecting how peers do irrespective of percentage enrollment in a school system. To be honest, I didn't know these numbers until yesterday; frankly, I had _assumed_ that the scores weren't this close.
Average SAT scores, by ethnicity (2005):
* White: Durham 1132, Wake 1060, Orange 1094, Johnston 1060, Chapel Hill 1271 (national: 1068)
* African-American: Durham 868, Wake 901, Orange 934, Johnston 906, Chapel Hill 889 (national: 864)
* Hispanic: Durham 1004, Wake N/A, Orange N/A, Johnston 955, Chapel Hill 984 (national 923)
End-of-grade reading at or above grade level, grades 3-8 (2005):
* White: Durham 93.8%, Wake >95.0%, Orange 91.2%, Johnston 92.3%, Chapel Hill >95.0%
* Af-Am: Durham 73.2%, Wake 79.1%, Orange 76.4%, Johnston 78.5, Chapel Hill 77.1%
* Hispanic: Durham 64%, Wake 76%, Orange 77%, Johnston 75.9%, Chapel Hill 77.5%
End-of-grade math at or above grade level, grades 3-8 (2005):
* White: Durham 94.5%, Wake >95.0%, Orange 92.3%, Johnston 93.9%, Chapel Hill >95.0%
* Af-Am: Durham 75%, Wake 80%, Orange 77%, Johnston 80%, Chapel Hill 78%
* Hispanic: Durham 77%, Wake 84%, Orange 95%, Johnston 87%, Chapel Hill 83%
Crime: I posted these on another thread, but they bear repeating. In 2004, the odds of being affected by violent crime (assault, murder, rape, robbery) in Durham were 0.77%, or less than 1 in 100. In that same year, the odds of being affected by violent crime in Wake County were 0.44% (.58% in Raleigh). Statewide, the average is 0.70%. Clayton was a comparatively low 0.30%... but Johnston County as a whole? 0.67%, almost the same as Durham.
Also, since schools come up frequently: There are also some interesting school statistics that provide food for thought. In looking at these, keep in mind that, nationally, white students perform better on standardized tests than some ethnicities/nationalities do. Stats from the Triangle mirror these numbers, but it's interesting to disaggregate stats by ethnicity from "overall" totals, since the overall total will tend to bias the total school system average rather than reflecting how peers do irrespective of percentage enrollment in a school system. To be honest, I didn't know these numbers until yesterday; frankly, I had _assumed_ that the scores weren't this close.
Hmmm, that's very interesting. Unfortunate, too. I've been poring over the test scores of many different counties, but test scores just don't paint the whole picture. You really have to read between the lines (like this analysis by race). Too bad they don't have a scale to measure child happiness and life experiences! That's what I want to see! Also, someone in another post said to look at past scores to see fluctuations after the tests are reformatted, so you can see which schools are just teaching "The Test". At least the parents aren't subjected to a standardized test every year - I'm not sure I would pass some parenting topics!
Hmmm, that's very interesting. Unfortunate, too. I've been poring over the test scores of many different counties, but test scores just don't paint the whole picture. You really have to read between the lines (like this analysis by race). Too bad they don't have a scale to measure child happiness and life experiences! That's what I want to see! Also, someone in another post said to look at past scores to see fluctuations after the tests are reformatted, so you can see which schools are just teaching "The Test". At least the parents aren't subjected to a standardized test every year - I'm not sure I would pass some parenting topics!
You're 100% right (and I meant to put that in the initial post, too.) There is a whole bunch more beyond test scores that matters, and it does become shorthand for whether a school, or an education, is "good" or "bad." There was actually a great thread here recently about several parents who weren't happy with one of the "best" (by test scores) school systems in the Triangle because they felt children were being pushed to a point of too high stress and that there was an obsession over scores.
I wanted to throw this out here because it's a part of the picture that doesn't get seen very often, but thanks for the reminder that test scores are NOT the be-all, end-all of existence...
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and I 
(with our two children) just drove around for hours, and we weren't fit to socialize after bickering over directions and trying to figure out north and south by the path of the sun!
