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What do you mean by "park"? Urban green spaces are extrememly important for the livibility of a city long term. At this point Raleigh is still more suburban than urban so the need for green spaces may not seem as great. But if Raleigh makes the leap to urban then it will need green spaces.
I currently live in Portland and we have some incredibly green spaces right in the middle of the city. Forest Park is literally less than 2 miles from downtown. Hiking in Forest Parks makes me feel like I'm in the middle of Mt. Hood National Forest instead of the middle of the City of Portland. And Portland has linked it's parks to bike paths and trails which makes getting around the city by bike easier, safer, and more scenic. More bikes less cars... it's a good thing. Not to mention adding a few trees back to an area like Raleigh who has lost so many trees in recent years is just plain good stewardship.
But if by park you mean just a big grassy area to walk the dog, then yeah it would be kind of a waste.
BTW, any know what the population of NYC was when they put in Central Park? Central Park is about 150 years old. So that's roughly 1857. I'm wondering how close Raleigh is now to NYCs population in 1857.
1. Yes it would. It would bring people to town, to spend money. It would raise all surrounding property values significantly. Speculators are licking their chops looking at Caraleigh. It would be a blessing to surrounding property owners.
2. Of course, some of the added revenue will cover the cost of added law enforcement.
3. Which park is that?
4. People would walk, hike, bike, exercise, picnic, fly kites, read, paint, have family reunions, sort of doing the things that people do in beautiful natural surroundings.
5. Well, not really. IMO, of course.
I hate no one.
What people would walk, hike, and exercise? Do you really think anyone would want to go their? Well there would be some people of course.
I am for a park, just on a smaller scale. I would like to see mid and high rise dev around the park. This would still cause the surrounding property values to sky rocket. The city would make money....the mentally ill would get money. Everyone would be happy. See, the mix use people like me, are willing to negotiate. The nimby's don't do that....they want everything their way, and no other way.
A large park would be a great spot for illegal activities. The crime, and homeless would take the park over. If there were people living around the park, it would keep the crime rates down. And make the park more of a family place. I am not making this up, this has happend to other parks in many other cities. Raleigh is not NYC either....so why does everyone keep bringing up central park? lol
It does not matter how much the nimby's moan and groan. The all park will never happen. The city of Raleigh is not exactly rolling in money right now. The city wants to make money. That is the option they will go with. I don't think cookie cutter dev will take place around the park. I believe we will see something much better.
The state of downtown Raleigh right now has nothing to do with the future of this land either. Why do you think this would hurt downtown without a park? The city of Raleigh is growing so much right now. The downtown population will begin to explode (Just like Charlotte). The small business downtown would only benefit from a mix used dix in the long term. A mix used dix will also bring jobs downtown over time.
Also, a large park would not bring people downtown to spend money. Why? Because dix is not downtown!
Thats why dix needs to be a mix use with a smaller park. Also with a museum located in the park, honoring dix. That would bring people to the park.
What do you mean by "park"? Urban green spaces are extrememly important for the livibility of a city long term. At this point Raleigh is still more suburban than urban so the need for green spaces may not seem as great. But if Raleigh makes the leap to urban then it will need green spaces.
I currently live in Portland and we have some incredibly green spaces right in the middle of the city. Forest Park is literally less than 2 miles from downtown. Hiking in Forest Parks makes me feel like I'm in the middle of Mt. Hood National Forest instead of the middle of the City of Portland. And Portland has linked it's parks to bike paths and trails which makes getting around the city by bike easier, safer, and more scenic. More bikes less cars... it's a good thing. Not to mention adding a few trees back to an area like Raleigh who has lost so many trees in recent years is just plain good stewardship.
But if by park you mean just a big grassy area to walk the dog, then yeah it would be kind of a waste.
BTW, any know what the population of NYC was when they put in Central Park? Central Park is about 150 years old. So that's roughly 1857. I'm wondering how close Raleigh is now to NYCs population in 1857.
PDX, Raleigh already has a park....for riding your bike along the waterfront, walking the dog, etc...
Thats the point I am making. Again, I am for the "park" or green space. Just on a smaller scale. The nimby's will not give in to anything though. It's all park! They are very one sided.
You make an interesting argument Beffry2, but just as you do not feel Raleigh has a need for such a large park, I don't see a need for more retail/office space and mid & high rises outside of Downtown Raleigh. There are several redevelopment projects that incorporate mixed use development downtown that haven't even broken ground yet such as the one planned for Person / Blount Street. And there are still numerous locations downtown that are already paved over that are available to be redeveloped.
In light of that I just don't see why high rises should be built outside of the downtown area which would lead to what some describe as the "Atlanta effect". Some might even say say this has already started with the 40 story mixed use Soleil Center planned to go up next to the Crabtree Valley Mall. At least in that case it will be a redevelopment project replacing an old dilapidated building in an area that has limited possibilities, but still it is a project that is better suited for a downtown urban area. Seems like the city of Raleigh would be better served if the urban redevelopment you seek occurred where it was needed most.... downtown.
Beffrey,
I am not a nimby, whacko, or tree-hugger. Currently, I think there is a compelling alternative for this property, which is already publicly-owned land.
I agree with you absolutely that there should be some recognition of Dorothea Dix hospital and the facility's namesake. A museum seems appropriate and would fit comfortably into the development proposed in the Dix306 plan. And the concern regarding mental health care is entirely justified.
But I think it shortsighted to believe that a world class destination park will not drive traffic to the area. Adjoining property values will skyrocket without extensive mixed use development.
Beyond that, it is the vision thing, seeing farther into the future than 2, 3, 5 or 10 years. 100 years from now, people will toast the thinkers who set aside 306 acres of open space. That's why I liked the N&O opinion piece regarding planners buying land for Bond park in Cary so much.
With a projected 200,000 increase in Wake County population in the near term, growth will demand great parklands to maintain quality of life. If the condos in downtown fill as predicted, there will be demands for additional easily accessible open space for recreational use, and Dix hill is walking distance from much of Raleigh. Setting aside open space is much more affordable when done at opportune times like this than it is to purchase property later.
It is a fundamental function of government to protect the citizenry from crime. Yes, that function is provided at varying levels of success. All around the USA, we have crime in residential neighborhoods. And for some reason, we keep building them. We have crime in office parks, and we keep building them. There is crime in mixed-use developments, and you are suggesting another mixed-use project.
Crime, or perceived potential for crime, is only a planning and administrative concern.
http://www.newsobserver.com/644/story/513371.html (broken link)
The N&O story relates that the ULI folks with the alternate plan for development propose a bond and private money for the $40,000,000 purchase of the land.
I'm all for a nice large park for the city of Raleigh. Complete with all the things that would come with including a stream running throughout, and icecream stands, benchs, dog paths etc. However, I don't think that setting aside the whole 306 acreage is the way to do that. I do believe that setting aside perhaps a third would do the same thing. I have always felt that that land deserves a much BIGGER role in the shaping of our city and region.
I feel that Raleigh has tons of parks and greenways and nature trails already and the city does a great job of planning for future ones and has been recognized nationally for this. (I is hard to disagree with this, it's a fact).
So I propose perhaps a world class Botanical Garden/Conservatory and or an Aquarium to complement the already great Natural Museum of Sciences, History, and Art Museum which recently hosted the traveling 'Monet in Normand' Exhibit. Look at what the Georgia Aquarium has done for Atlanta. By doing something like this you generate more revenue for the city and other Artistic type projects. If that dosen't work then I suggest unique retail and mixed use on the fringes of the land.
Thanks, Long term Raleigh Native and Future City Planner.
T.W. 23 years old.
I say small park with mid and high rise dev around it.
A large park is a total waste of space.
1. It will make no money, to give back to the mentally ill....and to the city
If only 1 out of 10 people who are already coming to Raleigh for a convention or something stay over an extra night to enjoy the Destinations in the park it will increase revenue by about $200 million annually to the region. In addition FDDP's financial analysis projects $2 billion in development around the park.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beffrey2
2. The park would be to large....there would be no way to control the crime, the city would have to hire more police officers....which would cost more money.....for a large park that would bring in no money.
The property is already open for public use for the most part and there is no crime problem on it. It is bordered on the east & southeast by an area sorely in need of redevelopment, and there is still no crime in it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beffrey2
3. Downtown already has a large park right beside dix...
Pullen is a moderately sized city park. It is not a great Destination Park. In addition it was built when there were 13,000 people living in Raleigh - population is now increasing by 18,000 per year. The park is under way too much pressure. On nice weekends cars are parked way out on the streets around the park in spite of the parking tickets. The same overcrowding is true at Lake Johnson. In fact the downtown parks are crowded.
Keep in mind that Central Park in NYC was built when the population of NYC was about the same as Raleigh's population is now.
DixPark is not for just now -- it is for generations in the future.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beffrey2
4. If there is a large park....why would anyone go their? There would be no attractions near by.....no people living near by
There are already people living near by. As I said Pullen is way too crowded already. The soccer fields that were built a few years ago are used continuously after school, work, and weekends.
Strangely enough, there was no one playing soccer at the old landfill before the soccer fields were built -- I wonder why?
The same is true for the great attractions at DixPark. How about a Textile museum with the new computer enhanced clothing, or a new state of the art solar home, or a redesigned Farmers' Market designed for park visitors. A Smithsonian Museum in an historic building. Sculptures sponsored by the Art Museum. Live music on the great field. Sailing radio controlled ships on the pond.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beffrey2
5. It is just a stupid idea
Just as stupid as Forest Park in St. Louis that began the resurgence of the depressed area around it. Oh what a coincidence, John Hoal, the deigner of Forest Park is the same designer that Friends of DixPark hired to design the FDDP plan. See it at their website DixPark.org.
on the side of the park. My bread and butter is development, but I have enough sense to see that with increased population and urbanization, the only logical way to adapt is with higher density housing and common green space and recreational facilities. That is, unless we go for mandatory world wide population control.
It is a fact that the population of this area will continue to increase well into the forseeable future. Now is the time to plan instead of bemoaning for the next several hundred years what we have screwed up. You can always build more buildings, but it is really tough to go back to green space once it is gone.
The fact is, though, that the park would need to serve the state, not just Raleigh. It can benefit Raleigh in many ways, but if we want to get the park and make the most of it, people should be able to benefit all over the state. I love to go to the beach, mountains, etc. I would like to see the park have some facilities and attractions that would be a draw for all of us. There are so many possibilities, it is mind-boggling!
Any ideas for something that could make all us north Carolinians, newcomers or natives, proud? I particularly like gardens and am thinking of some native plants, but beautifully arranged, with ponds, etc and some outrageous garden art from NC artists mixed in. Golden Gate Park is fabulous and has a great glass arboretum, which they just refurbished. Many other cities (Montreal is my favorite) have one, too. Ours might need to be smaller, but that's fine. The local garden clubs could each be responsible for a section.
Ok, there's my dream. What's yours?
One note....Raleigh already has a HUGE park....Umstead.
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