Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
?? er Norfolk is very "diverse" and not the most conservative place in the whole wide world either, FYI.
And if you think Norfolk is "too small," you'll hate it here. Norfolk/Tidewater is actually pretty sizable. Probably much better off in Seattle or Chi.
?? er Norfolk is very "diverse" and not the most conservative place in the whole wide world either, FYI.
And if you think Norfolk is "too small," you'll hate it here. Norfolk/Tidewater is actually pretty sizable. Probably much better off in Seattle or Chi.
That is what came to my mind when I read the post.
Thank you everybody for taking the time to respond to my post. I greatly appreciate everybody's advice. I will take it all into consideration while I consider what is the best option for me, both career and lifestyle wise.
The general sense that I got from these posts is that if Norfolk isn't enough for me, Raleigh-Durham will not be either. While I appreciate that there can be several comparisons drawn between the Hampton Roads area and the Triangle, I also see some key differences in the two areas that may or may not change the landscape of the region. Please let me know if I'm making some erroneus assumptions:
First, the similarities that I see:
1) According the U.S. Census Bureau, the Metropolitan Statistical Area (MSA) of the Virginia Beach-Norfolk-Newport News area has an estimated census of ~1.6 million. In comparison, (due to the particulars that define an MSA) the U.S. Census Bureau defined Raleigh-Cary as an MSA with a population of ~900,000. However, if you consider the Bureau's Raleigh-Durham-Cary Combined Statistical Area (CSA), the population totals ~1.3 million. For all intents and purposes, I'm considering the number of people in each area to be roughly equal (good assumption???).
2) Both populations seem to be fairly spread out with the Hamptom Roads area often referred to as the 7 cities, and the Triangle population spread among Raliegh, Durham, Chapel Hill, and a number of other suburbs (Cary often being the most cited). Neither area seems to have a well defined centralized population, but their functional centers (if you will) seem to be Virginia Beach and Norfolk in Hampton Roads, and Raleigh and Durham in the Triangle.
3) They're both Mid/South-Atlantic Cities, and probably draw the majority of their population from that region.
So... as far as on paper, I can definitely see how the argument can be made that if you don't like one place, you won't like the other, but...
The Differences:
1) The colleges/universities: Hampton Roads has Old Dominion University (ODU) and Norfolk State. While I don't have the numbers to back this up, I get the sense that both these colleges do not attract a lot of people outside of Virginia and perhaps some other neighboring states. The Triangle, as we all know, has Duke, UNC, NC State (and maybe you can throw in Wake Forest in Greensboro), all with much higher national AND international draw. I see this not only as a potential to increase diversity, but also potential to bring in jobs (i.e. young professionals), and subsequently all the cultural venues and activities to cater to this crowd.
2) The jobs: According to the 2008 "Forbes Best Cities for YOUNG PROFESSIONALS" list, Virginia Beach/Norfolk ranked #32 out of 40, siting the primary problem with the area is its ability to attract and hold graduates. Meanwhile, Raleigh ranks #12, with a multitude of job opportunities in the Research Triangle, IBM, etc...
3) The singles/young professionals: Forbes again has another rank list that attempts to rank the 40 largest metropolitan areas into the best cities for SINGLES. Their methodology supposedly takes into account factors such as # of singles, nightlife, culture, job growth, cost of living, and (some enigmatic) "coolness" factor. From 2001-2006, Raleigh consistently ranked very high (in the last 4 out of 6 years, ranked in the top 10), while Norfolk ranked very poorly (in the last 5 of 6 years, ranked in the bottom 10, including #38, #39, and #39 out of 40 in 3 of those years). So, Raleigh most be doing something right for their singles and young professionals to be ranked so highly on both lists... right?
So... are the similarities between Hampton Roads and The Triangle primarily geographic and in population? Are people's previous posts that state if I didn't like Norfolk, I wouldn't like Raleigh in reference to that? Are the differences I sited above legitimate differences that will change the overall experience, or am I way off base?
Also, to respond to DCGirl's statement: "Depending on how good the career opportunity is, it might make sense for you to sacrifice a little on the culture front." That is a definitely on the forefront of my mind, and is what this post was all about to begin with. Durham Regional = great career opportunity, but good enough city? Chicago or Seattle = great cities, but good enough career opportunity? There is obviously a balance, and I am the only one that can decide what balance is right for me, but I do appreciate other people's perspective. Particularly, does the Triangle have enough to give me a taste? And will I be satisfied with that taste, or will I want the whole meal?
Thanks again, everybody. I hope everybody has a Happy Thanksgiving.
So why don't you just come down and check it out. A couple days seems like a small amount of time to invest in researching a decision that will affect you for years to come.
BalmyC, we share similar backgrounds. I too am contemplating relocating to the Raleigh area and am an Asian male young professional. I have also looked at many of the stats you referenced. I can;t speak to the highlights and comparisons of the cities you're targeting, but I would point out a few things based on my experience of having relocated to a city (I shall not name) in the South.
1) Your experience with the dating scene echoes my own and many of my minority friends. While my friends and I have dated inter-racially, I agree the odds are much worse compared to the large metroplitan cities that many of us came from. My perception is not that women (and people in general) are racist, as much as they are more insular and less open-minded. Most of the locals I meet in the South have lived here their entire lives; the young professionals went to school near here and have to a great degree been unexposed to the level of diversity in the large cities. I view that as a challenge to "introduce" myself and my culture to them (although i was born in America) and most I've found to be receptive. So it takes some initiative and confidence, both which are character-building.
2) It doesn't take many people to make you like a place, despite what you may think. Ex ante, finding friends and a significant other may be more difficult in, say, Ralieigh vs. Seattle, but once you have found a cadre of close friends, the only other major variable is if you like the city. And if you are sociable and determined, you should not have trouble finding a good group of people in a city like Raleigh. In other words, I would advise to pick the city based more on the city itself rather than the people in it. You will not be interacting meaningfully with 99% of the people in any city anyway. Finding good people is something you can control, changing the city is not.
3) Weather and commute are very important. These may be more important to me than to others but I find that their importance is often underestimated by the ambitious mobile young professional. I would think Raleigh would have the advantage here.
You should definitely just come down here and check it out. Downtown Raleigh is definitely coming up in the world. New mixed use high rises and life is returning to downtown. Sundays are very quiet downtown, but any other day/night is lively. Plenty of young professionals. Lots of trendy, small restaurants, bars. Walking distance to theater, bars, dining. Main drawback is there's not much shopping yet. Glenwood area is very trendy. Not many pedestrians daytime, but nighttime it booms. Lots of young trendy arty people. All the universities here in the Triangle ensures there's always a youthful, educated population. However, if you think you'll be commuting regular hours to RTP, traffic would be a concern. The 40 really gets backed up westward during rush hours. So you should also consider Durham and Chapel Hill. I know very little about Durham but many people on this site recommend it. I've personally not been that impressed with that area, but I can see the potential in it. Chapel Hill is nice, young and pretty, but the area is spread out. Chapel Hill is actually larger than it seems at first glance.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Reply to BalmyC
