Observations on Another Visit to Downtown Raleigh and I Still Have Questions (Fayetteville: appointed, real estate)

[Charlton Dude]

The wife, son and I all went to downtown Raleigh today to see the IMAX movie, The Day the Earth Stood Still. Setting aside the fact that we were suckered into a bleeding heart, mankind sucks, man made global warming myth movie thinking it was actually a real movie, I still did take note of a few things and need help. I will start out by stating that I am not a downtown city person. I don't like the closed in feel and the grid streets. But I went with my eyes open to look around and see if I can see what some others see and this is what I saw:

• We bought our tickets early and then wanted to find a place to eat, by walking. MISTAKE. Almost every place was closed today. What few places were open were awful. They were mostly bar type places that were extremely dirty and did not have a pleasant feel at all. We ended up at the Subway shop, which was not our best move. We threw the food down and escaped as the gangsters made their appearance.
• Upon trying to walk back over to the IMAX show, we had to walk across this miniature park, I guess you would call it. There was a crowd there and food was being handed out. We were surrounded by what appeared to be homeless people. We were stared down from one side to the other.
• Then we watched the movie in great disappointment. We got suckered into something that we would not care for, by thinking it was something else.
• Upon leaving, we took a look all around to see how everything looked. Everything looked run down to one side of the IMAX. It was awful and I just could not wait to get away. But when we looked the opposite direction, things looked much better. It seemed to be the dividing line.
• As we drove away, I decided to drive down a couple of blocks to see the nice park and the nicer part of the city. That part was actually fairly nice.....for a city. Things were better kept and the buildings looked much nicer. But then you go a couple blocks further and you are right back to some unappealing buildings and homes. Sprinkled throughout are some really cute homes that have been kept up well, which seemed a bit odd. It seemed odd to have a really nice little home surround by junk and a lot of homeless people lurking about. The homeless were hitting up people walking down the street. And then there were the gang bangers hanging out.

So this is what I came away with. I liked some of the newer buildings and some of the well kept older homes. However, there were far fewer of them than there were buildings and homes that were just awful. I really liked the beautiful park they had near downtown, but would not feel comfortable walking around with all the questionables lurking. We were sooo disappointed in places to eat. There was not much open on Sundays and what is there was not even remotely clean.

Now this was a limited tour and visit all around the IMAX and immediate downtown, plus some roads leading in. What am I missing? I hear many posters talk about how great it is downtown. Did I miss some magical place or are my tastes just that different than others. I hear people use the words character and grit. Character I think I understand. I could see some character in some of the older, but well kept homes. It's too bad there are homeless and gang bangers walking all around them. What is the grit part? Is grit good and why? Is there somewhere else I need to check out inside the beltline? Is there an area that is ALL nice?

I don't think I will be back to that part of downtown anytime soon, but I am really hoping that I missed something. When my parents visit, I would love to show them some nice areas of the city, but they seem so limited and surrounded by stuff that I would be embarrassed to show them. Heck, I don't even let them see downtown Cary.


Disclaimer - I do not want this to turn into a city/burb bashing thread. I really want to have a open mind and see if I missed something. I am a full fledged country boy, so to my eyes things may look different than yours. Also, I think that if it was not a Sunday, things may have been more active there and we may have had many more choices of places to eat.

[miamiblue]

Wow, where to start?

Honestly, it was really hard to take any of your post seriously because of how you started out about the movie. Seriously, before I go see ANY movie I tend to read the synopsis to get an idea of what I am paying my hard-earned money to go see. Not to mention, The Day the Earth Stood Still is a remake. I don't see how a movie that is a work of *fiction* has anything to do with downtown anyway...

You say you don't like "cities". What made you think you'd like downtown Raleigh, then? Everything you are complaining about downtown Raleigh is common in most cities' downtowns to some extent or other. It sounds to me that you are just not comfortable visiting places that are outside your comfort zone. Gangsters? Gangbangers?? Give me a break. Don't like grid streets? I am the complete opposite - I can't stand the melee of completely illogical streets in the rest of Raleigh. I grew up in a city that was pretty much all grid, and it was great because you could take back roads and shortcuts if there was a problem on one of the main arteries. Not to mention is it so much easier to find addresses. But to each his own. I do enjoy driving on those twisty, hilly roads in N Raleigh.

Restaurants. Sunday is really the worst day of the week to come downtown. The places that are open for lunch on Sundays in the Moore Square area (that's the square park you mentioned) include El Rodeo in City Market, 101 Lounge & Cafe on Blount & Martin, and Tir Na nOg (nice Sunday brunch buffet here). Others that are in walking distance open up a little later on Sunday for the dinner crowd. Which were the "awful" ones? How do you know they were awful if you did not eat at them? Also, everyone has a different idea of what walking distance is. To me, Glenwood South is walking distance from Moore Square, but others won't even walk a block out of their way, so that can be subjective.

There are homeless and panhandlers downtown. They exist in many cities across the US and the world because it is a fact of life that some people do not have the means that the rest of us have. They can easily be handled if you aren't scared out of your wits by them. Moore Square is right next to the bus terminal. Lots of people coming and going, so that is the perfect place for a panhandler to hang out. Most of the time homeless people and panhandlers are completely harmless. I think the issue has actually improved in the two and a half years I've lived here so far. I've been to Moore Square many, many, MANY times, day and night. That is the most utilized square downtown for large events, especially in the summer. I think it is nice that Raleigh has Moore Square and Nash Square to add some green space to the city.

I guess where ever it is that you have lived, there has been little to no socio-economic diversity. It seems as though you are used to seeing people living at or above a certain income level and nothing else, and are uncomfortable around people who are different from you. There are some poorer neighborhoods to the east of downtown Raleigh. When the suburbs came into fashion, people of means started to leave the cities and the city became the "undesirable" real estate that the poorer folks could afford. This happened across the country for several decades. Only recently have people started to gentrify them. Some of the poorer people still reside in the area. They have to live somewhere. We can't very well exile them to an island where we won't have to see any of them and their "junk". They are people, too.

You don't really give us any specifics of where you were, but it sounds like you were in the vicinity of the historic Oakwood area just east of Moore Square? I'm just guessing, but without specifics, can't really tell you if you would like another area better.

Anyway, I'm not really sure what you want out of a downtown. It sounds like you just don't like cities, and so there isn't going to be one that you like. Embarrassed of downtown Cary? Why? I think Cary has a cute little downtown.

You would probably prefer some of the really super nice neighborhoods inside the beltline such as Five Points, Hayes Barton, Cameron Park, Bloomsbury, the country club, etc. Those are where all the really nice houses are, and they are beautiful neighborhoods, Raleigh's original suburbs. You won't have to worry about being "attacked" by homeless people there, but you won't find much there other than houses (with the exception of the shops in Five Points).

Anyway, I hope that you give downtown Raleigh and the cultural offerings there a chance. You don't have to like it enough to want to live there, but there are many festivals and events that happen downtown that are worth checking out if you are interested in music, art, theater, etc.

[Francois]

• Then we watched the movie in great disappointment. We got suckered into something that we would not care for, by thinking it was something else.

And this has exactly WHAT to do with the regional topic of this board?

[saturnfan]

We visited Charlie Goodnight's club downtown a few weeks ago and walked a bit around the Greyhound terminal.

Area reminded us of a Manhattan factory district in the evenings. It was quite deserted around 8 PM.

Some newer condos appeared to indicate a revitalization in process.

[twoisbetter]

If you aren't a city person, its hard to appreciate a city, no matter how good. That said, downtown has its ups & downs...some very charming areas, and some very gritty, ghetto areas. I am sorry you missed some of the great restaurants tho...there are a few I can think of right where you were...Cafe Luna, Duck & Dumpling, Big Eds, Vics italian. Can't tell you the hours, but I would think at least one would be open. That park is a little rough...I've been to events there, and it does attract all kinds for sure...its not very clean. It is right by the bus depot and so people tend to hang around. But I would call it safe and you can walk up to Fayetteville st or the capital...and the museums are close too. All interesting. In my 3 yrs I can say its improved...and that there are definitely plenty of great restaurants around...ask this group before you go and we can make some recommendations!

[Charlton Dude]

Originally Posted by twoisbetter

But I would call it safe and you can walk up to Fayetteville st or the capital...and the museums are close too.

Now I liked Fayetteville where everything looked clean and orderly and I liked some of the modern looking buildings. I wouldn't want to live there, but I thought it had some appeal. I wish there was more of that.

[Charlton Dude]

Originally Posted by miamiblue

You say you don't like "cities". What made you think you'd like downtown Raleigh, then?

We were going to the IMAX, which happens to be there. While there, I wanted to give the city a second look.

Originally Posted by miamiblue

Restaurants. Sunday is really the worst day of the week to come downtown. The places that are open for lunch on Sundays in the Moore Square area (that's the square park you mentioned) include El Rodeo in City Market, 101 Lounge & Cafe on Blount & Martin, and Tir Na nOg (nice Sunday brunch buffet here). Others that are in walking distance open up a little later on Sunday for the dinner crowd. Which were the "awful" ones? How do you know they were awful if you did not eat at them?

We went inside a couple that were open and walked back out. They had bad atmosphere and they we not clean.

Originally Posted by miamiblue

You would probably prefer some of the really super nice neighborhoods inside the beltline such as Five Points, Hayes Barton, Cameron Park, Bloomsbury, the country club, etc. Those are where all the really nice houses are, and they are beautiful neighborhoods, Raleigh's original suburbs.

Thanks for the info on these. I would love to check out neighborhoods like these. They would be my speed, even if I can't afford them. My tour was very short, so I am sure I missed some great things. I appreciate your input.

[Claire_F]

I second what Miamiblue said about Tir Na Nog. They have a great Sunday brunch, and are mere steps from Marbles & the IMAX theater.

The Salvation Army is on the opposite side of the park. My guess is that the homeless people you spoke of where from there. However, they have just as much right to be in the park as you do.

You might have had a better experience (both with the movie and the visit downtown) if you had done your research before going. You apparently missed out on what makes downtown Raleigh special.

[lamishra]

Was Cafe Luna across the street closed? I love that place. Big Ed's is right around the corner from the subway too and should have been opened today (big brunch crowd!).
Anyway, my 14 year old goes school right next door to the IMAX and spends a lot of time in that park!
You know, all I can say is that it is a downtown. Not all downtowns are clean and sparkly with wealthy urbanites milling about. Downtown Raleigh has made a LOT of changes over the years and things get a little better every day. The park has a lot of homeless people there because that's where many of the shelters are located. They've never bothered us at all and we don't bother them.

That's just the way it is. We love it down there and we take the good with the bad.

[chuckreis]

If you like clean, cookie cutter beige stick to North Raleigh, the Burbs and Fayetteville street. If you like the charm of the grime wander around downtown and enjoy the people and places. Check the Health Ratings before eating or even going in some places. I think you will find a bunch of those grimey places have ratings higher than a lot of chain fast food places.

What you are missing about being downtown is local flavor. The stories and antics of the homeless people. The charity of helping the homeless. The wonder of buildings that are not only functional but were built by true craftsmen where form was of concern. You are missing value menus, supersized fries, and the same food at every storefront. You are missing stores like Father and Sons where you can find orignal art as well as vintage funiture. Most of all you seem to miss the false sense of security that the burbs bring to people.

Go where you feel comfortable, that is what I do. If you do not like downtown stick to Northhills (which I actually do like).

And thanks for the review of "The Day the Earth Stood Still". I was on the fence about it and I will wait for it to hit Netflix. Some movies should not be touched.