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Thanks. I'm sure that anyone afftected by the economy and the current state of the auto industry will surely appreciate your patriotism.
I am not patriotic enough to pay too much for an inferior product that will lose it value twice as fast as its competition. That would just be plain stupid of me. I went to multiple dealers in the Triangle and the American automobile dealers did not want to deal. The Nissan dealership did. My Civic held its value EXTREMELY well, which allowed me to walk into my new well made truck pain free. You do the math.
I can't really answer that given I don't have access to Nissan's dealer incentives which are hidden from the general public. Like I said earlier you seem like a shopper who puts the effort in and I'm sure the price you got was a good one.
My main point was that comparing a sales price to a KBB or NADA "invoice" is NOT how someone should determine whether they got a good deal or not. There are many variables which bring the true dealer cost to a figure well below the KBB/NADA "invoice."
I would appreciate a brief overview of your guidelines on the methodology we all should apply when purchasing a new vehicle so that the best price is obtained. So far you have said what shouldn't be done but not offered any insight as to how you personally would approach this matter.
What public information is available to benchmark dealer prices? is it only Nissan dealer incentives that are hidden from the general public? are other manufacturers more transparent in pricing / dealer incentives? what web site is a good one to use? or do you recommend using a broker to source new vehicles to get the best price?
I would appreciate a brief overview of your guidelines on the methodology we all should apply when purchasing a new vehicle so that the best price is obtained. So far you have said what shouldn't be done but not offered any insight as to how you personally would approach this matter.
What public information is available to benchmark dealer prices? is it only Nissan dealer incentives that are hidden from the general public? are other manufacturers more transparent in pricing / dealer incentives? what web site is a good one to use? or do you recommend using a broker to source new vehicles to get the best price?
The hidden dealer incentives are not available to the general public. We aren't able to find actual dealer cost pricing on TV's, appliances, clothes, homes, etc. Why anyone would think the auto industry would be any different is beyond me. The auto companies are not as stupid as some people may think - they know what they're doing. (Some more than others of course.)
I think a broker is a complete waste of money unless you are REALLY clueless on how to buy a car. Websites are good for research but beyond that they won't help much.
Best thing to do is find the model of car you want. Then, go find the car at 2 different dealer lots and engage them in a bidding war. Show Dealer #1 a copy of the specs and the actual quote on the car from Dealer #2 and vice-versa. (Dealer #2 can be an online quote from someone, too, if you prefer, but the dealer needs to be within reasonable driving distance (2-3 hours) or it won't be taken seriously.) Keep going until one stops dropping the price. That is truly old fashioned I know but trust me that motivates them more than anything else. Presenting facts on another offer goes a long way to get dealers to take it seriously.
Dealers are much more motivated to shed cars on their lots because they are paying floorplan interest on each of them. Also, if you want a Civic, dealers who have more of them on their lot are more willing to negotiate further down. If a dealer is in short supply they are not going to be as motivated to make a deal.
If you want to have a fun conversation ask the salesperson how much dealer cash are they getting on this unit. That'll be good for a laugh as they try to dodge the question.
I personally have never played one dealer against another. I look to my best available pricing resource (NADA), NOT KBB, as that is old hat and dealers, insurance companies and appraisers/adjusters do not use KBB unless they are trying to see if you have done your homework. NADA figures are used in the industry.
Apples/apples comparison. Use your homework against the dealer. What exact options does the vehicle have that you are pricing? If they have the exact model you want BUT it has, for example, a power sunroof or another option you do not want, do not pay for it. Settle IN YOUR OWN MIND what you will pay for the vehicle. Ask the dealer to provide you with an OUT THE DOOR price. That includes all costs/fees/hidden crap. That figure is not to go up. See if you are comfortable with that FINAL price.
Do NOT pay for the ludicrous Documentation Fee. That can range up to $395, and is pure profit for the dealer and legal robbery. Do not pay this fee. Tell the dealer in plain English that you will not pay this fee.
If the dealer will not work with you, walk out. It's a car, for crying out loud. Transportation. You will not have it for many years and it is not an appreciating asset like your home or another investment. I have purchased numerous new cars this way, and used cars as well, and I am fair but firm. I do allow the dealer a bit more flexibility right at the very end (my most flexible allowance was $200). It should not take a long time and it should not be painful.
Anyone can arrive at a dollar figure they are comfortable with, where the vehicle purchase does not bring remorse. The values are published. Use NADA guidelines. It's free and quite accurate. Lay your figure out to the salesman and let him justify why it won't work. Be ready to leave. It really is not that hard.
Also, do not mention that you even have a trade-in until you have settled on the purchase price. Trade-in is a distinctly different and separate negotiation. Know yourself what the dealer should be offering you, realistically. Then, marry the trade-in portion of your powwow to the previously-negotiated purchase. If it does not work out, either walk away, or be prepared to sell your car privately. That, too, is not hard. Craigslist is free and works well. Carmax or another venue can be used too.
Bottom line, arm yourself with knowledge, determination and be able to look your dealer in the eye and take charge. The old school game playing does not have to ruin your experience. Basically, don't appear desperate and by all means, do not appear to be "in love with" the car.
The hidden dealer incentives are not available to the general public. We aren't able to find actual dealer cost pricing on TV's, appliances, clothes, homes, etc. Why anyone would think the auto industry would be any different is beyond me. The auto companies are not as stupid as some people may think - they know what they're doing. (Some more than others of course.)
I think a broker is a complete waste of money unless you are REALLY clueless on how to buy a car. Websites are good for research but beyond that they won't help much.
Best thing to do is find the model of car you want. Then, go find the car at 2 different dealer lots and engage them in a bidding war. Show Dealer #1 a copy of the specs and the actual quote on the car from Dealer #2 and vice-versa. (Dealer #2 can be an online quote from someone, too, if you prefer, but the dealer needs to be within reasonable driving distance (2-3 hours) or it won't be taken seriously.) Keep going until one stops dropping the price. That is truly old fashioned I know but trust me that motivates them more than anything else. Presenting facts on another offer goes a long way to get dealers to take it seriously.
Dealers are much more motivated to shed cars on their lots because they are paying floorplan interest on each of them. Also, if you want a Civic, dealers who have more of them on their lot are more willing to negotiate further down. If a dealer is in short supply they are not going to be as motivated to make a deal.
If you want to have a fun conversation ask the salesperson how much dealer cash are they getting on this unit. That'll be good for a laugh as they try to dodge the question.
Thanks for the clarification but I must admit I was disapointed that you didn't enlighten me with anything I didn't already know. I had high expectations that you had some great sources of information after reading your exchanges with Charlton Dude. I always use the same approach as CD described when buying new cars and like CD even though I always walk away satisfied with the 'deal' I am always open to new sources of information that are now more widely available on the internet than when I last purchased a vehicle.
From my experience buying a new honda civic recently, it seems there are two types of dealers. One that is a high-pressure dealer and the other is a low-pressure dealer. This has to do with the culture of the dealership and not necessarily the brand.
This is basically what I did.
Went into dealership A (Honda of Southpoint) - they are a high-pressure dealership. Took a test drive. The sales rep threw up some numbers, gave me a copy. They did the whole thing, introduce me to the GM, etc. I left to think it over.
I then put a online request for sams club. They gave me a pretty simililar number.
I then went to the dealership in Cary website. They have an 'internet division'. How this works is that the sales reps only take the people off the interweb that come in (other sales reps take the walkins, its a different culture). The internet division has a fixed price. I went in, took a final test drive, paid them in cash for the exact amount indicated online. It was cheaper than the guys in Southpoint and the deal from Sams Club.
So i think you need to know the culture and history behind the dealership. If it's a low haggle store it should be obvious from the get-go. Are there 10 guys hanging around? That's a high-pressure envt. The sales reps are paid on comission only there. For low haggle, they get less of a comission and more of a base salary. Thus their motives are different in that they can still eat without making a sale.
The Nissan dealership of 15-501 near Sams Club is a low-haggle dealer, the one accross the street (Toyota I think) isn't. If they call you back 5 times a week, they are high-pressure (Toyota). If they call you back a month later , they aren't (Honda - Southpoint; althought maybe the rep just wasn't in the mood, because they did many things representitive of a high-pressure sale).
Pay no attention to the number details. Pay attention to: Total price. Extended warrenty. Extras like floormats and special fabric protection (these things usually appear at the managers office - say no). For loans, pay attention to the total number of years, the APR, and the monthly payment, which translates to total price plus interest. They will throw all sorts of numbers at you; no doc fees, etc. But they make it up somewhere. Of course they need a profit, that's their livelyhood. But you don't want to be fleeced. Know what the car should cost (from CR or edmonds), pay cash. That's the best advice.
Good luck. (I read a long article about car buying from consumer reports - this is where i got the culture info), from my experience everything that was mentioned on CR was true.
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