Will DT Raleigh grow to become like Charlotte? (Greensboro, Winston-Salem: neighborhoods, university)
Raleigh, Durham, Chapel Hill, CaryThe Triangle Area
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I don't think the OP was "trolling" as you put it. He gave Charlotte some nice props and in return I gave Raleigh some nice props. It doesn't always have to be a competition between Charlotte and Raleigh metro. Like you've ALWAYS said, bigger doesn't always mean better. However, in Charlotte's case, bigger has translated into better urban planning, bigger more active downtown, and better mass transit. This is something I think the OP is wanting to see more of in Raleigh. I agree with him. I would like to see it in Raleigh too.
I could be wrong, but I think metro.m may be questioning the OP's downtown Raleigh experience. Has the OP based his opinion of downtown Raleigh solely on seeing a movie at IMAX or strolling Fayetteville Street on a Sunday afternoon? Is it mainly the skyline that is lacking? Or has he also participated in the SparkCon festival, attended Downtown Live, or even had dinner on Glenwood South on a Friday night?
The Glenwood South district of downtown Raleigh is very active on any Friday and Saturday night, and the activity has been steadily growing on Thursdays and Wednesdays as well, despite current economic conditions. I live in this area and see (and participate in) downtown activity daily. In fact, I often find that there are more activities going on during the weekend than I can attend. It is usually a tough choice to decide what I have to miss out on.
Having moved to Raleigh from a city with a superior skyline to even Charlotte's, I know firsthand that a skyline does not a city make. I do love a good skyline (who doesn't?), but if those buildings don't support activity on the ground outside of the M-F, 9-5, then they are just decoration. Not saying this is the case with Charlotte or Raleigh, just making that point for anyone who is only interested in the buildings themselves.
Raleigh's downtown growth is a bit slower now that the economy is finally checking itself, but I still see new business opening despite the slowdown. One thing Raleigh is lacking, IMHO, is actual retail. Sure, we've got the space, but now we need businesses to fill that space. Unfortunately, I think retailers are still waiting for downtown Raleigh's population density to catch up to numbers that will support more retail.
I have admittedly never been to Charlotte, but I don't think Raleigh should try to be like any other city. Instead, our community and leaders should carefully analyze the positive aspects of other cities that we would like to incorporate into Raleigh's downtown, implement those characteristics, and then let it develop its own character. In the same vein, we should also duly note the weaknesses of these cities in order to prevent some of the problems that are already known to exist.
I'm just glad that there are people who are interested in talking about the future of downtown Raleigh. There are other websites that go into much more detailed discussions of some of the issues brought up in this thread. DM me if you are interested.
Again, I am NOT suggesting that Raleigh does not have weekend/weekday/New Years crowds. I just wanted you to at least see some of Charlotte at night so you can kinda see what the OP witnessed. Also, it is only fair to note that Charlotte has two main night life areas (Uptown and Ballantyne). Ballantyne has many of the same bars and clubs that Uptown has (just located in a more suburban location).
Just outside of Uptown's main strip is Uptown's North Carolina Music Factory area. This area also has a night life scene of its own. Head just west of Uptown, and there are TONS of "grown and sexy" clubs as well as gay and lesbian clubs near Freedom Drive. South End also has its own selection of clubs that usually feature live music acts. In all honesty, uptown is just one part of central Charlotte's night life. Generally when we say "Uptown" here, we are talking about all of Central Charlotte (which is a large area of clubs, bars, and lounges). There are MANY folks that only party in South End instead of uptown for example (eventhough South End is only 1 mile south of the center of uptown). The bottom line is uptown is NOT Charlotte's only night life spot. In time, I hope to do some videos of these non-uptown party areas.
Last edited by urbancharlotte; 10-29-2009 at 12:59 PM..
Again, I am NOT suggesting that Raleigh does not have weekend/weekday/New Years crowds. I just wanted you to at least see some of Charlotte at night so you can kinda see what the OP witnessed. Also, it is only fair to note that Charlotte has two main night life areas (Uptown and Ballantyne). Ballantyne has many of the same bars and clubs that Uptown has (just located in a more suburban location).
Just outside of Uptown's main strip is Uptown's North Carolina Music Factory area. This area also has a night life scene of its own. Head just west of Uptown, and there are TONS of "grown and sexy" clubs as well as gay and lesbian clubs near Freedom Drive. South End also has its own selection of clubs that usually feature live music acts. In all honesty, uptown is just one part of central Charlotte's night life. Generally when we say "Uptown" here, we are talking about all of Central Charlotte (which is a large area of clubs, bars, and lounges). There are MANY folks that only party in South End instead of uptown for example (eventhough South End is only 1 mile south of the center of uptown). The bottom line is uptown is NOT Charlotte's only night life spot. In time, I hope to do some videos of these non-uptown party areas.
Once again spamming the board with your videos. Do you seriously think that looks much different than a typical weekend night in Raleigh? Most decent sized cities have pretty good nightlife these days, Charlotte's no exception. Charlotte has a more big city feel because of the infrastructure and tall buildings, but that's about the only difference. Raleigh has the grit and numerous hole in the walls. Both cities have their strengths and weaknesses, but making snide remarks about either is redundant. I frequented venues in Charlotte, and I had a lot of fun. I also have a lot of fun in Raleigh as well. Neither city is beyond the other so far as nightlife is concerned. However Charlotte is laying the groundwork for being in a much higher league than Raleigh, if this city's building projects don't pick back up.
Charlotte does a much better job of organizing venues and info on where to go in Charlotte, hence the reason 30-40 Raleigh restaurants aren't listed on the site you posted. Raleigh does a poor job of promoting downtown. Many of the people on this board live in the suburbs, and have no clue how many establishments are downtown. My friends are shocked when we take them out when they visit us downtown to hand out. I get the same response every time when I say let's hang out Downtown "There's nothing to do there is it?" After I take them out they become city slicker all of a sudden... I've experienced nightlife in Greensboro and Winston-Salem. Winston actually forced me to drive back to Greensboro, and Greensboro was no comparison to Raleigh. Just wasn't...
I hung out at the Borough and Solas in Raleigh recently, and was very surprised with the hip, cosmopolitan scene being cultivated in center city Raleigh. I would like to see it extended further down Glenwood to the Morgan Street intersection and beyond so that it is a continuous strip of nightlife into the heart of downtown.
DT Raleigh looks and feels like DT Raleigh. Nothing against DT Charlotte but not only are they geographically different there histories are different. Each has its own charm and look and feel which is just perfect for me as when I want the feel of DT Charlotte I travel there and see it. When I want the feel of DT Raleigh I hop on US1 South and waiting in a lot of traffic and traffic lights and then I feel it. So for me I would not want DT Raleigh to grow up to be DT Charlotte. But that is just a Wake Forest-ites opinion!
DT Raleigh looks and feels like DT Raleigh. Nothing against DT Charlotte but not only are they geographically different there histories are different. Each has its own charm and look and feel which is just perfect for me as when I want the feel of DT Charlotte I travel there and see it. When I want the feel of DT Raleigh I hop on US1 South and waiting in a lot of traffic and traffic lights and then I feel it. So for me I would not want DT Raleigh to grow up to be DT Charlotte. But that is just a Wake Forest-ites opinion!
I think more people would go into downtown Raleigh if Cap. Blvd were a freeway (or had light rail down its median).
I do think Raleigh could benefit from mimicking the unabashed, unashamed boosterism of Charlotte. Charlotteans love to promote their city, and every little accolade or progress in that city is shouted from the rooftops from not just city officials, but everyday citizens. For instance, as this thread attests, multiple everyday Charlotteans have posted videos on Youtube showing off how cosmopolitan and lively uptown Charlotte is. On discussion forums such as Urbanplanet and Skyscrapercity, Charlotteans are amongst the most avid posters and participants. They think big and love to showcase their city.
This enthusiasm for urbanism creates buzz and hype about the city that leads to the perception that Charlotte is the "jump off," the hotness. Likewise, Charlotteans think big. They see themselves as a budding "world class city" aspiring to world class city amenities, including light rail, center city high rise condos, uptown arenas/stadiums, and an uptown theater. They push and push until they get the trappings of big cities. No, unlike Raleigh, Charlotte doesn't say "oh we're just a mid size city" or "that building would be too tall for our city" or "we are not quite ready." Of course, I am way overgeneralizing here so don't take me strictly literally, but much of Charlotte's milestones are attributable to its unadulterated boosterism and aspiration to be a big city.
Last edited by Tarheelhombre; 10-30-2009 at 10:01 AM..
I think more people would go into downtown Raleigh if Cap. Blvd were a freeway (or had light rail down its median).
Now you're talking. I've always thought this would be the most successful transportation plan Raleigh could ever implement. It would rejuvenate and urbanize the entire area extending from DT to the Triangle Towne Center area just south of I-540. Northeast Raleigh is projected to have over 175,000 people living there in 2025. South Blvd in Charlotte will be incredible in the next 10-15 years, and Raleigh will still be twiddling it's thumbs. This is what I mean when I say we need more ambitious leadership.
I do think Raleigh could benefit from mimicking the unabashed, unashamed boosterism of Charlotte. Charlotteans love to promote their city, and every little accolade or progress in that city is shouted from the rooftops from not just city officials, but everyday citizens. For instance, as this thread attests, multiple everyday Charlotteans have posted videos on Youtube showing off how cosmopolitan and lively uptown Charlotte is. On discussion forums such as Urbanplanet and Skyscrapercity, Charlotteans are amongst the most avid posters and participants. They think big and love to showcase their city.
This enthusiasm for urbanism creates buzz and hype about the city that leads to the perception that Charlotte is the "jump off," the hotness. Likewise, Charlotteans think big. They see themselves as a budding "world class city" aspiring to world class city amenities, including light rail, center city high rise condos, uptown arenas/stadiums, and an uptown theater. They push and push until they get the trappings of big cities. No, unlike Raleigh, Charlotte doesn't say "oh we're just a mid size city" or "that building would be too tall for our city" or "we are not quite ready." Of course, I am way overgeneralizing here so don't take me strictly literally, but much of Charlotte's milestones are attributable to its unadulterated boosterism and aspiration to be a big city.
That's the number one problem here in Raleigh. The level of negativity and apathy in this city is mind boggling. I have never seen citizens anywhere with such a lack of civic pride.When I visit Charlotte most of the citizens there are like tour guides. Charlotte citizens are very proud and aware of the goings on in their city. Our voter turnout of 10% speaks volumes! As it stands, the folks who truly run this city are clear cutting developers and contractors. Hopefully this will begin to change as DT takes shape into a locale Raleigh residents can fully recognize and be proud of. Maybe then will transplants and natives proudly call themselves Raleighites.
^^^I agree with the last three posts. However, let's not forget that Raleigh's downtown is making progress. One thing that would help Raleigh's "fun" image would be a theme park IMO.
As far as downtown is concerned, a much stronger bus system would actually bring more foot traffic into downtown. The last time I checked, Raleigh's Cat bus carried only 4.5 million passengers per year. Greensboro and Durham both carry about the same I think (4.5 million each). That is waaaaaay too low for a city that is trying to build light rail. It also shows that much of Raleigh's growth has been suburban (and suburban minded people). This makes it very difficult to build rail transit. A change in mentality is certainly needed in Raleigh before more progress can be made in the right direction.
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There are other websites that go into much more detailed discussions of some of the issues brought up in this thread. DM me if you are interested.
I've experienced nightlife in Greensboro and Winston-Salem. Winston actually forced me to drive back to Greensboro, and Greensboro was no comparison to Raleigh. Just wasn't...
