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During my search for a viable relocation area I prepared the following cost comparison of Rochester, NY vs Raleigh, NC. I did my best to include all costs and think I covered most everything. Please let me know if I'm missing anything or am way off on cost estimates.
I'm happy to answer any questions. And I welcome any other comments as well, such as your shock and disgust over NYS property taxes and related closing costs which is just one of many reasons I'm relocating to Raleigh.
Note there definitely are less expensive houses in Rochester. However, when looking for a house with the features listed you're into $300K+ houses easily. Otherwise you will have closer to 2K sq ft, no office, or an outdated house built in the 1970's which will require significant time and expense to bring to date. So the house I chose was located in Pittsford, NY and built in the 90's and a pretty straight comparison to what kinds of resales you'll find in Raleigh.
What a great side-by-side comparison! I'd update a couple things for you with regards to some of the fees listed:
There is personal property tax on vehicles/boats in NC, and the following link explains vehicle registration as well. You'll be required to pay Highway Use Tax, at a cap of $150 per vehicle when registering the cars for the first time, then a tax on the value of the car with each subsequent yearly renewal. The DOT site is surprisingly easy to use, and has a link for newcomers as well.
NC state sales tax has actually dropped, and will drop again in July. Except for Mecklenburg County, the combined state/county sales tax rate will be 6.5%.
As they have everywhere, gas prices have gone up - I think the Raleigh average last week was $2.94?
Property tax will vary depending on whether you're within the city limits or not. If the house is in the county, it will be lower, but if you're within the city limits, it will be roughly 1%. Next year is the reassessment, too, so tax value will be much closer to market value at that time. (On the $365k home you've described, inside city limits, taxes would be closer to 3650/year.)
Unbelievable closing costs in Roch!! Wow!
Thanks again for this easy to follow breakdown of costs, it will be very helpful not just to people coming from NY, but from anywhere to compare cost of homeownership/cost of moving. I have to spread some rep around before giving it to you again, or you'd get another rep point!
The nice part about hosting the cost comparison externally is I can easily update it based on comments such as yours. I've added car registration and updated the sales tax per your notes.
The cost comparison is also slightly skewed due to the fact I'm comparing insurance and mortgage costs from different agencies in different states. For example, I have Met for my current NY insurance and their rates are higher to some degree than Travelers which is who I signed with in NC. But by all accounts NY insurance rates are higher. Most shocking is the health care costs which are about $400/mo higher in NY. That cost was hundreds less per month in NY only 2-3 years ago. And it's still BlueCross/BlueShield.
Regarding gas. Yes it's gone up here as well. When I got gas a couple days ago it was inching over $3/gal. Gas is $0.10-$0.20/gal more expensive here based on my personal observations.
Hopefully this chart helps others when comparing costs. Though property taxes are less expensive in NC there's other fees that are higher. But the you can easily negate those with savings elsewhere such as sales tax, cheaper insurance, etc. The end result for me will literally be hundreds and hundreds less per month in total expenses, most of that from property tax savings. That's even considering them going up in NC. They always go up in NY each year as well. My current modest $140K property had $3400 in taxes 7-8 years ago and is now $5800 thanks to constant changes in assessment techniques going from partial assessment to full market value assessments plus the never ending increases in tax rates.
Note I'm getting a *TON* of other non-financial benefits such as weather (huge bonus!), job opportunities (10x more jobs posted for my wife's med tech career), growing community instead of shrinking, proximity to the ocean, etc.
You're so right about the quality-of-life benefits as well as the monetary ones. We moved here for a job and did the same cost analysis for NC vs. FL, and NC came out on top for us as well. Now that we're here, that benefit pales in comparison to the better quality of life for the very reasons you mentioned - and I would add better schools hands down here vs. FL, too.
I'm surprised that your house in Rochester was so expensive. I had seen so many houses in Rochester in Realtor that it seemed like people were just giving away. I assumed the real estate market there was hopeless for a seller.
My current 3 bed 2 bath 2100 sq ft 1970 house sold for $145K and it's listed with $5,800 in taxes. But it's on the west side of town in an fairly unattractive neighborhood by the airport, railroad, and highway (noisey). It's full of split level homes which most people don't like since you have to walk up/down stairs all day long. I'm not dissing my house, but it's nothing special (no master suite even) and is in the less desirable town, hence the cheap price.
The east side of town is where the more desirable areas are. And they are comparatively expensive. Newer housing starts around $250K and comes with $8K+ taxes easily. But that's for a "small" 2300 sq ft 4 bed 2.5 bath house build in the last 10 years. It won't have an office or a bonus. Probably just one family room and maybe a living room. I work from home so I need some viable office which excludes the vast majority of property up here. Hence my comparison to a $319K house in Pittsford which is directly comparable to the home I purchased in Raleigh in both sq ft and # rooms and general quality/features.
So yes, you are correct. There ARE cheaper houses in Rochester (and there's a ton on the market). But there are also cheaper houses in Raleigh. I'm trying to compare apples to apples as best I can.
Generally speaking I figured at the same monthly mortgage amount you can buy about $90K more house in Raleigh than Rochester due to the taxes alone. Each $1200 in annual taxes adds $100/month to your mortgage and it adds up quickly.
Thanks for the clarification. It is smart to compare the type of home that you need/want, not just what is most common. I'd have to agree that the difference in taxes makes a big difference in housing costs. I like upstate NY; it's a shame that taxes are so high.
I have been trying to figure out health benefits myself. My husband is looking to get on the police department there. They will pay his benefits but my son and I would be under Blue Cross Blue Shield. I wonder how much will be taking out bi-weekly. I asked the recruiter, he couldn't give me an answer.Here in Maryland we pay 85 every other week for health benefits and that is for am HMO. I have tried looking on their website, which is of course no help?
I'm employed by a small California software company. While they have a national health plan available it's apparently a couple hundred dollars per month cheaper to obtain BC/BS directly for whatever reason. I simply called an insurance agent my Realtor referred me to for auto/home insurance. I didn't get auto/home through him but he had seemingly good prices on BC/BS insurance. He quoted by person not by "family plan" like in NY. Children in good health were quote to me at $155/month for Plan A with 100% coverage and a $250 hospital deductible which apparently is the best plan available in NC. Adults are more expensive, of course. And there's cheaper deductibles and plans available as well.
As far as closing costs. That varies SIGNIFICANTLY by lender/broker/agent. I had a broker that wanted to charge me every fee under the sun. Origination fees (a HUGE fee @ 1% of the mortgage), commitment fees, and on and on. Closing costs were almost $6K. Instead I got a better rate with no lender closing costs and in fact a $200 credit at closing from Bank of America under their recent "mortgage rewards" program. Total closing costs are $2K or less. Of course the broker said he's match BofA's rate and fees to earn my business. But it's kind of a slap in the face adjusting your price so significantly just because a competitor beat you out. So I went with BofA and it appears to be working out well thus far.
As with anything else shop around, pit the mortgage people against each other. I personally just fax/email them each other's GFEs and let them duke it out for my business. It's ruthless! But you have to watch out for #1 and every 1/8th of a percent you can shave off your rate and every $ you can cut out of the closing costs the more money in your pocket.
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