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Another big AMEN! Excellent, excellent post rnc2mbfl!
It takes a little bit of logic and a latent knowledge of economic principles to understand why development of downtown Raleigh, and density in general, is smart for the city. That said, I realize that not everyone will understand the concept.
It is kind of sad to me that some people seem to shun urbanity and downtown just for the sake of it. Why would anyone have such disdain for the opportunity to see a play, opera, ballet, art exhibit, history lecture, stand-up comic, live music, eat a high quality meal at a good restaurant, etc. all in one compact area? I really don't understand how that is so horrible. Thank goodness it seems that most of my peers, even those who live well away from downtown, appreciate the things that a good downtown can contribute to their lives whether or not they actually live downtown.
And it's kind of funny to hear people complain about the money being spent downtown. They are usually the first to say they wouldn't set foot downtown on their own accord, and that is probably largely based on what downtown became after it was abandoned financially by the city. If you look back at pictures of Raleigh before the dead zone you'll see a bustling, busy downtown. I'm glad to see it is on its way back to that!
I guess I haven't been paying attention, because I don't recall reading many complaints about downtown Raleigh development (at least the money aspect of it). I have no problem with it, although I rarely go there because I'm not a city person and don't like dealing with traffic, parking, etc. Downtown Apex is about as "downtown" as I like!
Development is a great idea but what about affordable development as in housing so that people can frequent the DT development you are referrring too? I live SW of Raleigh becaue I cannot afford to live IN Raleigh. I work in Raleigh but have to commute everyday as there is a snowball's chance in hell I could ever afford a home in DT. The other issue is although developing DT is a great idea. Let's think about who needs to be able to get there easily...those that live outside, which is a large portion of the population..let's also support a better transportation system to outlying areas to get people to frequent DT. Right now where I live, I drive or do not get to Raleigh...no good forms of public transporation to get me there.
For DT residents, the reasons are probably the most obvious. Development brings more urban variety and quality of urban life DT. Frankly, isn't that what DT dwellers want?
Don't forget that what many urban dwellers want and need is a decent job with a livable wage.
I don't think many urban dwellers want faux chi-chi designer urban neighborhoods that push them out and create a low income neighborhood somewhere else.
So often development models think about what suburbanites might want and forget about the urbanites. (Suburbanites have already made their choice)
I am somewhere in between: I would LOVE to live in a nicely renewed urban neighborhood, but generally can't afford it.
In general I support the RIGHT kind of urban development. But a big part of me wants to tear down anything unused and turn it back into greenspace. (reverse the Pave Paradise and Put up a Parking Lot trend)
I, for one, love the changes being made downtown. Growing up in N. Raleigh, people would always be afraid of going downtown, but I have now learned. I find it a very safe and exciting area of the Triangle to visit. I just wish I could go there more
I think I'm the third or fourth AMEN to the original post. Very well-articulated. I agree with the need for logic and clear explanations when talking about development in general, but especially DT, transit, and housing issues. You'll always have the naysayers, like NRG said, but most topics have that certain segment of detractors with a narrow, selfish point of view. I kind of just let them go on their way being negative, not much you can do about it...
As for DT Raleigh being abandoned (in the past), "dangerous", "dirty" or any of the other adjectives I've heard used to describe it.... well, let me just say that, being from Detroit, you ain't seen nothin' if you think DT Raleigh has problems!
dt raleigh is certainly not huge, but it's fun, it's relatively safe and clean, compared to virtually every other city i've been to (large and small). one of the things that attracted me to Raleigh was the feeling that it's a manageable city (unlike, say...NYC), but that it's growing and improving. that can't be said for a lot of cities, where things are stagnant, getting worse, or just trying to patch up holes. i think it's actually somewhat unique, and while i certainly am impatient for it to develop more, i'm just happy that it's growing...
i am slightly concerned, though, that while there's sort of a balance between the pro-development people and the NIMBY/"i hate downtown, make my strip mall nicer" folks, this recession may tip the balance towards abandoning new development for years. if the momentum completely stops, i see a regression ahead for raleigh. all the new stuff stops being sustainable, and bit by bit it turns into flint michigan... well, maybe not, but you get the idea.
I have really enjoyed reading all the replies to my original post. Thanks everyone for such an interesting dialogue. I really appreciate it.
That said, I want to weigh in on a few other related topics that others have raised.
First of all, I want to talk about DT affordability. Frankly, I think this is an issue that's more complex than it might seem at face value. At the foundation of this particular issue is ones expectations. That is to say, it's possible to live DT for many people but it requires trade offs that many are unwilling (or unable) to make. Tradeoffs include home size, yard size (or having a yard at all), noise, etc. It's even possible to live in good locations near DT if one is willing to make the necessary tradeoffs. It's true that it is more expensive to live in a luxury apartment DT than it is to live in a similar property in the surrounding suburbs. But, it's also possible to live in a less than luxury DT apartment for the price of a nearer luxury apartment elsewhere. Again, it's about trade-offs. What's important to you is the question to ask.
The issue mentioned about displacing and relocating the poor is an issue/concern that I share. In the case of many cities where there are miles and miles of old urban rowhouse neighborhoods, the effects of gentrification are probably more obvious. But, it is an issue everywhere there is a renewed interest in a previously ignored place. That said, there is so much opportunity for develpment in and near DT that it doesn't even have to touch existing homes and neighborhoods that are more humble and working class. But, at the same time, I am not naive to think that it won't have a longer term effect on what happens to these places going forward. But, if you look at the sheer amount of space that is available DT, a good city planner could probably map out some scenarios that add tens of thousands of new residents along with associated businesses and corporate ventures.
At the same time that the city is looking at the future of DT, other corridors in the city should also be planning their futures. For instance, there is so much opportunity to shape the future of the Capital Blvd. corridor. Even if we just looked at the stretch from DT to I-440, we can probably accommodate tens of thousands of new residents and position this development in alignment with Light Rail. More later when I have more energy. :-)
I think I'm the third or fourth AMEN to the original post. Very well-articulated. I agree with the need for logic and clear explanations when talking about development in general, but especially DT, transit, and housing issues. You'll always have the naysayers, like NRG said, but most topics have that certain segment of detractors with a narrow, selfish point of view. I kind of just let them go on their way being negative, not much you can do about it...
As for DT Raleigh being abandoned (in the past), "dangerous", "dirty" or any of the other adjectives I've heard used to describe it.... well, let me just say that, being from Detroit, you ain't seen nothin' if you think DT Raleigh has problems!
Funny you mention Detroit as I think Raleigh could take some lessons from Detroit.
I wish Raleigh had what downtown Detroit had to offer as far as entertainment options. Raleigh is okay for bars and restaurants although I still feel it's kind of a scattered mess down there. I can find all kinds of good restaurants and bars up here in Wake Forest or North Raleigh so I don't need to go downtown for that.
What I really wish Raleigh had was more theaters and/or sporting events in the downtown area. (Hell, even Detroit's casinos are fun.) I think it was a big mistake to put the RBC Center out near Carter-Finley where there is NOTHING to do. It would have been awesome for that to be built downtown somewhere. I think they should find out how to relocate things like Goodnights or Progress Energy Theater down there somewhere, too. Everything in Raleigh is just far enough away from each other where you can't walk it.
We always joke how Raleigh needs a Detroit People Mover. That would be awesome if they had one of these and made it connect to Moore Square, the Museums, Glenwood South, Warehouse District, NC State, and Carter-Finley/RBC Center.
I think they should find out how to relocate things like Goodnights or Progress Energy Theater down there somewhere, too. Everything in Raleigh is just far enough away from each other where you can't walk it.
We always joke how Raleigh needs a Detroit People Mover. That would be awesome if they had one of these and made it connect to Moore Square, the Museums, Glenwood South, Warehouse District, NC State, and Carter-Finley/RBC Center.
The Progress Energy Center IS downtown. Are you thinking about a different venue???
Miami has a people mover too but it's not well used. For now, I am very pleased with the RLine DT circulator bus. It's a start. I would like to see it extended to include Cameron Village. This would allow DT proper residents access to a significant amount of retail without needing a car.
Soon DT Raleigh will have another entertainment venue when the amphitheater is erected this Spring. In a way, I am glad that the activity DT is more spread out. It allows different parts of DT to develop personalities to go along with their brands. It also gives DT more activity which will undoubtedly cause interest in the "spaces between" activity. I'd much rather see DT develop organically this way within a looser neighborhood framework. I think it allows for a more interesting tapestry of activity.
As for walkability, that's subjective. My place DT is near the north end of Glenwood South and I walk to Fayetteville St., the Warehouse District, the emerging restaurant row on Wilmington St. and even Cameron Village. But, then again, I am a big walker. Of course, I would like to see more.
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Thank goodness it seems that most of my peers, even those who live well away from downtown, appreciate the things that a good downtown can contribute to their lives whether or not they actually live downtown.
Two cents
In a way, I am glad that the activity DT is more spread out. It allows different parts of DT to develop personalities to go along with their brands. It also gives DT more activity which will undoubtedly cause interest in the "spaces between" activity. I'd much rather see DT develop organically this way within a looser neighborhood framework. I think it allows for a more interesting tapestry of activity.
