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Actually no--the link he provided was ONE-dimensional (left or right) and the Nolan chart is TWO-dimensional. A THREE-dimensional chart would leap out of the page at you
One dimension is a line.
Two dimensions is a square.
Three dimensions is a cube.
I agree, it was a slip. Running the IT department for an Aerospace machining company at one time, you'd think I wouldn't have goofed like that. lol
Actually to be 100% accurate, "dimension" probably shouldn't be used in this context as we are in a 2d medium.
The proper way to describe it would be "axis". So insted of having a single axis chart, X ___ the Noland chart is two axis X and Y +
Quote:
Originally Posted by Francois
And since the test does not define "progressive", be careful what YOU attribute to that definition. People answered the poll who consider themselves "progressive", based on THEIR definition, not yours and not necessarily even the Nolan test's,
I disagree with this simply because everything can not be "relative". There are clear definitions of the "labels". In fact that's my point for providing the Nolan Chart - many people don't know what they are or are mistaken! I'll put myself in that category until recently and I have a polysci educational background! It wasn't until I really examined my views, that I came to understand who I am at my core.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Francois
But I suspect EVERYONE "supports liberal or conservative or libertarian or progressive views", it's just a matter of which views PREVAIL.
Two thoughts.
1. Going by your above statement, how can anyone be sure if they are any of those and by who's definition? See my point?
2. I agree, it's what prevails. Did you even try and take the Nolan quiz? It does the very thing you are railing against. tI doesn't put someone into one of 4 boxes. You're "star" will show up center, left, right, up or down or slightly to the left, slightly to the right etc It gives you an idea of your leanings.
I obviously only have so many options in this poll, so you'll have to translate that into one of the four boxes even if you are just "slightly left" or whatever. It is, after all not a full on scientific poll. Remember.
I am surprised at the poll results so far. I did not think conservative/libertarian would have been the majority. I wish independent, moderate or centrist were included. I think more people truly fall in one of these categories if they take each issue item by item.
I am surprised at the poll results so far. I did not think conservative/libertarian would have been the majority. I wish independent, moderate or centrist were included. I think more people truly fall in one of these categories if they take each issue item by item.
I hear you. I would just like to say again why I did not include "centrist" or "moderate" or "independent".
Centrist/Moderate is one of the most overused and misunderstood phrases in recent memory. Most people say they are "center" but in reality, when "tested" or "probed" find they do have a bias of some sort. If I put "moderate" it would IMO give a "false" option because of that...so the few that are actual centrists, lose out. Sorry.
Independant is not an ideology. I think we ALL are independant meaning we can choose whatever we like. I don't tow a party line any longer myself...however I DO have an ideology and "mindset".
I have already clicked an answer and C-D won't let me change it, now that I see your "rules" (which weren't posted until over 50 had answered it, which is kind of changing horses in midstream). I had taken the Nolan test long ago and knew it "biases Libertarian".
Your examples using same-sex marriage (though not the best example since that is a particularly controversial topic that people often "cross the line" about from their "usual" political leanings) clarify to some degree, but again, it's shutting the barn door after the horse has fled. Since we cannot change our vote once posted, how do you know that those who posted in the first 50 or so actually meant the same thing for each of the 4 answers that you meant? It's as if you had asked "Which is your favorite fruit: Grape, Pear, Banana, Apple". Then, after many had answered, you come along saying "Oh by the way, when I said 'Apple', I was referring to green apples only." Now what do all the people who love red apples do, after they've answered and can't change their votes? That's basically what you did, in particular with "Progressive", since many folks, at least in the Triangle, use "Progressive" to mean what was classically called "liberal" since the "L word" has been successfully tainted by Republicans in the Gingrich era.
In research methodology, we call this "construct validity", namely, does the poll in fact measure what it purports to. I say "not so much". Always, ALWAYS define your terms at the beginning BEFORE people post their answers.
Also, using the example you did might give examples for a social issue (though again, you should have used less of a "hot button" one), but political views are formed on both social and fiscal issues. I know many, many people who would test solidly "conservative" on fiscal issues and solidly "liberal" on social issues (which yes, generally comes out Libertarian on most crude scales like the Nolan test). A more thorough explanatoin in the "rules" of the poll (which of course should have been posted in the very first post) would have given both social and fiscal examples of your intentions of "Cons", "Lib", "Libert", and "Prog". I do a lot of political reading and usually hear the converse of Libertarian called "Populist", not "Progressive".
I hear you. I would just like to say again why I did not include "centrist" or "moderate" or "independent".
Centrist/Moderate is one of the most overused and misunderstood phrases in recent memory. Most people say they are "center" but in reality, when "tested" or "probed" find they do have a bias of some sort. If I put "moderate" it would IMO give a "false" option because of that...so the few that are actual centrists, lose out. Sorry.
Independant is not an ideology. I think we ALL are independant meaning we can choose whatever we like. I don't tow a party line any longer myself...however I DO have an ideology and "mindset".
This whole exercise is pointless if 'centrist' is excluded from the poll because 'you say so'. It invalidates probably 20% of people (maybe more) who score centrist on the Nolan chart. I am interested in what agenda you have in mind when determining the questions and what purpose the information serves when the choices are so subjective.
I have already clicked an answer and C-D won't let me change it, now that I see your "rules" (which weren't posted until over 50 had answered it, which is kind of changing horses in midstream). I had taken the Nolan test long ago and knew it "biases Libertarian".
Your examples using same-sex marriage (though not the best example since that is a particularly controversial topic that people often "cross the line" about from their "usual" political leanings) clarify to some degree, but again, it's shutting the barn door after the horse has fled. Since we cannot change our vote once posted, how do you know that those who posted in the first 50 or so actually meant the same thing for each of the 4 answers that you meant? It's as if you had asked "Which is your favorite fruit: Grape, Pear, Banana, Apple". Then, after many had answered, you come along saying "Oh by the way, when I said 'Apple', I was referring to green apples only." Now what do all the people who love red apples do, after they've answered and can't change their votes? That's basically what you did, in particular with "Progressive", since many folks, at least in the Triangle, use "Progressive" to mean what was classically called "liberal" since the "L word" has been successfully tainted by Republicans in the Gingrich era.
In research methodology, we call this "construct validity", namely, does the poll in fact measure what it purports to. I say "not so much". Always, ALWAYS define your terms at the beginning BEFORE people post their answers.
Also, using the example you did might give examples for a social issue (though again, you should have used less of a "hot button" one), but political views are formed on both social and fiscal issues. I know many, many people who would test solidly "conservative" on fiscal issues and solidly "liberal" on social issues (which yes, generally comes out Libertarian on most crude scales like the Nolan test). A more thorough explanatoin in the "rules" of the poll (which of course should have been posted in the very first post) would have given both social and fiscal examples of your intentions of "Cons", "Lib", "Libert", and "Prog". I do a lot of political reading and usually hear the converse of Libertarian called "Populist", not "Progressive".
At any rate, I can't change my vote now.
I have no intentions other than sticking my finger in the wind and having some fun. My explanation was simply for people to know *my* viewpoint, not directions for the pole. Sheesh.
It's a stupid forum pole and for the 3rd time well known that it's not scientific. Relax a little please.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beermat
This whole exercise is pointless if 'centrist' is excluded from the poll because 'you say so'. It invalidates probably 20% of people (maybe more) who score centrist on the Nolan chart. I am interested in what agenda you have in mind when determining the questions and what purpose the information serves when the choices are so subjective.
I'll say it again: Actually I'll just quote it because I'm tired of repeating myself.
Quote:
Centrist/Moderate is one of the most overused and misunderstood phrases in recent memory. Most people say they are "center" but in reality, when "tested" or "probed" find they do have a bias of some sort. If I put "moderate" it would IMO give a "false" option because of that...so the few that are actual centrists, lose out. Sorry.
The flipside to your point would be that the results are skewed by putting centrist in there. Either way, it's not there. If you truly understand the meaning of centrist and are one, don't vote. That's all I can say.
I answered before I did the test because I knew what answer I would chose and thus did not need the test the OP included-the one offered in case someone wasn't sure which choice fit them. After reading all the discussion I decided to check out the test. No, I didn't love all the options but I chose the closest fit and came out pretty accurate. IRL I'm more compassionate then some conservative because I feel we should take care of children and offer chances to those individuals who are REALLY trying to better their lives. My first job out of college was doing welfare interviews so I've seen both types of people. Of course I'm not actually in NC yet so I did fudge a little but I will be a transplant in a few months--and yes, we have a job lined up already and it's NOT in the IT field.
I took the test, but I did not like the spin answers. It scored me right at the intersection of centrist/libertarian/conservative. The answers were mostly extremist answers, rather than common sense answers.
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I'll say it again: Actually I'll just quote it because I'm tired of repeating myself.
